Echosport comment: Cherries boss Groves an honourable man, but it wasn't enough (From Thisisdorset)

Quote " A deep thinker and meticulous planner, he clearly had the respect of most of his players " oh come on, he was the worst manager we ever had, Bond had no money to play with but discovered some gem of players, as did Quinn( surprisingly).

Lets now forget this sorry saga and hope that EM has learnt a valuable lesson and appoints a good manager - whatever the cost.

A disaster of an appointment.
An average of two points a game is now needed to even reach 80 points and maybe then the playoffs.

Luckily League One is very low quality this season so its possible.

Rarely on here, and forgive the lenght of this, but in my view these are the reasons why we are where we are

1. Planning and Managing Expectation.
There seems to be little in the way of a long term strategic view from board level. Once money came into the club it was spent first in January to try to gain promotion immediately, and then in the summer, to try to gain promotion this season. There's very little recognition that that model seldom works. Look at the clubs who have been promoted in League One since 2007: Swansea City, Nottingham Forest, Doncaster, Leicester City, Scunthorpe United, Norwich City, Leeds United, Millwall, Brighton, Southampton Peterborough, Charlton, Wednesday. Huddersfield Town, all much bigger clubs in terms of investment and support base, with the possible exception of Scunthorpe and Doncaster. To state, as the chairman and captain did before the Portsmouth game, that the aim was immediate promotion raises ridiculous expectations and puts increased pressure on players.
A further consequence of the way the money has been spent is that we now have a group of players on startlingly varied contracts. This has destroyed the spirit that was there and communicated to the fans under previous management. It was a huge factor in why fans came.
2. Player purchases.
The current management have demonstrated just how important our scouting regime was to the club. The departure of Joe Roache was a critical error. Howe's team was built on his knowledge and eye for a player. He would have saved us millions, or got much more for what we have spent.
It is incredibly naive to expect that the players we have bought somehow would guarantee promotion, the stated aim. Some, Grabban, Tubbs, O'Kane have excelled in League two but are untried at this level and will take time to find their feet in a more competitive division. Others, Cook, Addison, Francis, were surplus to requirements at bigger clubs. Others, Barnard, Elphick, Hughes have had long term injuries and/or serious time out of the game. Demogue and Davids appear to have arrived with injuries and lacking fitness. Just because we spent money on them doesn't mean they will immediately improve the team.
It's ironic that despite the investment, the players Groves has relied upon and who arguably have performed better, have been those bought under the previous era, who are on much less extravagant contracts. Arter, Pugh, MacDonald, Partington and Carmichael have all put in creditable performances this season. None of the first three have played in the last three awful games. There's a serious case to make that the new players are currently no better than the previous ones
3. Tactics.
To play a diamond requires precision and confidence. It can work, but opportunities are more limited, a cost for greater control. Our side lack precision in passing and in taking chances and once chances are missed resort to long ball. Lack of width makes us easy to keep out. The sides that do well in this league all have pace, width, a midfield general and a reliable striker. We struggle to match them in all four areas. The diamond has sapped confidence. Charlie Daniels is a case in point. The partnership with Pugh, given our striking potential, should be deadly, but their chances have been limited by the formation.
4. Captaincy.
For me Addison looks slow. Zubar and Cook have hardly put a foot wrong when partnered together. But by making Addison captain we have made it impossible to pick the best centre back pairing. I wonder whether the captaincy was part of the contract negotiation.
5. Man management.
The task given to Groves was almost unprecedented in this league. I can't think of any club who have been successful with this model. In short he has been set up to fail. Bringing Redknapp back may have been an attempt to boost the gate, but further undermined his position in an already fractious dressing room.

What to do.
1. Stop talking about promotion.
2. Secure safe long term investment with the aim of growing the club and the business, so that we are not in a position whereby ot’s promotion or bust.
3. Develop a proper scouting process, which will be vital to long term development.
4. Install a proven manager, who will need to be given the authority and control to rationalise the squad and build a team over the next three to five years. Not because Groves was a poor coach, but because we have created a mess which he was unable to extricate us from.

Then we will have a club that feels right to support.

No doubt he is an honourable guy and I know Shaun Brooks is as well, but good coaches do not necessarily make good managers.You need someone to be able to 'pull punches' and tell players when they are 'not up to scratch'. You also need a good captain to lead by example and Addison does not do this.

shwan99 wrote:
Rarely on here, and forgive the lenght of this, but in my view these are the reasons why we are where we are 1. Planning and Managing Expectation. There seems to be little in the way of a long term strategic view from board level. Once money came into the club it was spent first in January to try to gain promotion immediately, and then in the summer, to try to gain promotion this season. There's very little recognition that that model seldom works. Look at the clubs who have been promoted in League One since 2007: Swansea City, Nottingham Forest, Doncaster, Leicester City, Scunthorpe United, Norwich City, Leeds United, Millwall, Brighton, Southampton Peterborough, Charlton, Wednesday. Huddersfield Town, all much bigger clubs in terms of investment and support base, with the possible exception of Scunthorpe and Doncaster. To state, as the chairman and captain did before the Portsmouth game, that the aim was immediate promotion raises ridiculous expectations and puts increased pressure on players. A further consequence of the way the money has been spent is that we now have a group of players on startlingly varied contracts. This has destroyed the spirit that was there and communicated to the fans under previous management. It was a huge factor in why fans came. 2. Player purchases. The current management have demonstrated just how important our scouting regime was to the club. The departure of Joe Roache was a critical error. Howe's team was built on his knowledge and eye for a player. He would have saved us millions, or got much more for what we have spent. It is incredibly naive to expect that the players we have bought somehow would guarantee promotion, the stated aim. Some, Grabban, Tubbs, O'Kane have excelled in League two but are untried at this level and will take time to find their feet in a more competitive division. Others, Cook, Addison, Francis, were surplus to requirements at bigger clubs. Others, Barnard, Elphick, Hughes have had long term injuries and/or serious time out of the game. Demogue and Davids appear to have arrived with injuries and lacking fitness. Just because we spent money on them doesn't mean they will immediately improve the team. It's ironic that despite the investment, the players Groves has relied upon and who arguably have performed better, have been those bought under the previous era, who are on much less extravagant contracts. Arter, Pugh, MacDonald, Partington and Carmichael have all put in creditable performances this season. None of the first three have played in the last three awful games. There's a serious case to make that the new players are currently no better than the previous ones 3. Tactics. To play a diamond requires precision and confidence. It can work, but opportunities are more limited, a cost for greater control. Our side lack precision in passing and in taking chances and once chances are missed resort to long ball. Lack of width makes us easy to keep out. The sides that do well in this league all have pace, width, a midfield general and a reliable striker. We struggle to match them in all four areas. The diamond has sapped confidence. Charlie Daniels is a case in point. The partnership with Pugh, given our striking potential, should be deadly, but their chances have been limited by the formation. 4. Captaincy. For me Addison looks slow. Zubar and Cook have hardly put a foot wrong when partnered together. But by making Addison captain we have made it impossible to pick the best centre back pairing. I wonder whether the captaincy was part of the contract negotiation. 5. Man management. The task given to Groves was almost unprecedented in this league. I can't think of any club who have been successful with this model. In short he has been set up to fail. Bringing Redknapp back may have been an attempt to boost the gate, but further undermined his position in an already fractious dressing room. What to do. 1. Stop talking about promotion. 2. Secure safe long term investment with the aim of growing the club and the business, so that we are not in a position whereby ot’s promotion or bust. 3. Develop a proper scouting process, which will be vital to long term development. 4. Install a proven manager, who will need to be given the authority and control to rationalise the squad and build a team over the next three to five years. Not because Groves was a poor coach, but because we have created a mess which he was unable to extricate us from. Then we will have a club that feels right to support.

Spot on!

shwan99 wrote:
Rarely on here, and forgive the lenght of this, but in my view these are the reasons why we are where we are 1. Planning and Managing Expectation. There seems to be little in the way of a long term strategic view from board level. Once money came into the club it was spent first in January to try to gain promotion immediately, and then in the summer, to try to gain promotion this season. There's very little recognition that that model seldom works. Look at the clubs who have been promoted in League One since 2007: Swansea City, Nottingham Forest, Doncaster, Leicester City, Scunthorpe United, Norwich City, Leeds United, Millwall, Brighton, Southampton Peterborough, Charlton, Wednesday. Huddersfield Town, all much bigger clubs in terms of investment and support base, with the possible exception of Scunthorpe and Doncaster. To state, as the chairman and captain did before the Portsmouth game, that the aim was immediate promotion raises ridiculous expectations and puts increased pressure on players. A further consequence of the way the money has been spent is that we now have a group of players on startlingly varied contracts. This has destroyed the spirit that was there and communicated to the fans under previous management. It was a huge factor in why fans came. 2. Player purchases. The current management have demonstrated just how important our scouting regime was to the club. The departure of Joe Roache was a critical error. Howe's team was built on his knowledge and eye for a player. He would have saved us millions, or got much more for what we have spent. It is incredibly naive to expect that the players we have bought somehow would guarantee promotion, the stated aim. Some, Grabban, Tubbs, O'Kane have excelled in League two but are untried at this level and will take time to find their feet in a more competitive division. Others, Cook, Addison, Francis, were surplus to requirements at bigger clubs. Others, Barnard, Elphick, Hughes have had long term injuries and/or serious time out of the game. Demogue and Davids appear to have arrived with injuries and lacking fitness. Just because we spent money on them doesn't mean they will immediately improve the team. It's ironic that despite the investment, the players Groves has relied upon and who arguably have performed better, have been those bought under the previous era, who are on much less extravagant contracts. Arter, Pugh, MacDonald, Partington and Carmichael have all put in creditable performances this season. None of the first three have played in the last three awful games. There's a serious case to make that the new players are currently no better than the previous ones 3. Tactics. To play a diamond requires precision and confidence. It can work, but opportunities are more limited, a cost for greater control. Our side lack precision in passing and in taking chances and once chances are missed resort to long ball. Lack of width makes us easy to keep out. The sides that do well in this league all have pace, width, a midfield general and a reliable striker. We struggle to match them in all four areas. The diamond has sapped confidence. Charlie Daniels is a case in point. The partnership with Pugh, given our striking potential, should be deadly, but their chances have been limited by the formation. 4. Captaincy. For me Addison looks slow. Zubar and Cook have hardly put a foot wrong when partnered together. But by making Addison captain we have made it impossible to pick the best centre back pairing. I wonder whether the captaincy was part of the contract negotiation. 5. Man management. The task given to Groves was almost unprecedented in this league. I can't think of any club who have been successful with this model. In short he has been set up to fail. Bringing Redknapp back may have been an attempt to boost the gate, but further undermined his position in an already fractious dressing room. What to do. 1. Stop talking about promotion. 2. Secure safe long term investment with the aim of growing the club and the business, so that we are not in a position whereby ot’s promotion or bust. 3. Develop a proper scouting process, which will be vital to long term development. 4. Install a proven manager, who will need to be given the authority and control to rationalise the squad and build a team over the next three to five years. Not because Groves was a poor coach, but because we have created a mess which he was unable to extricate us from. Then we will have a club that feels right to support.

What a superb post - please EM and co, read this post !

He does seem a very nice bloke and I cant help but feel a bit sorry for him.

However, dont forget the idiot whose lack of knowledge and judgment appointed him in the first place.

shwan99 wrote:
Rarely on here, and forgive the lenght of this, but in my view these are the reasons why we are where we are 1. Planning and Managing Expectation. There seems to be little in the way of a long term strategic view from board level. Once money came into the club it was spent first in January to try to gain promotion immediately, and then in the summer, to try to gain promotion this season. There's very little recognition that that model seldom works. Look at the clubs who have been promoted in League One since 2007: Swansea City, Nottingham Forest, Doncaster, Leicester City, Scunthorpe United, Norwich City, Leeds United, Millwall, Brighton, Southampton Peterborough, Charlton, Wednesday. Huddersfield Town, all much bigger clubs in terms of investment and support base, with the possible exception of Scunthorpe and Doncaster. To state, as the chairman and captain did before the Portsmouth game, that the aim was immediate promotion raises ridiculous expectations and puts increased pressure on players. A further consequence of the way the money has been spent is that we now have a group of players on startlingly varied contracts. This has destroyed the spirit that was there and communicated to the fans under previous management. It was a huge factor in why fans came. 2. Player purchases. The current management have demonstrated just how important our scouting regime was to the club. The departure of Joe Roache was a critical error. Howe's team was built on his knowledge and eye for a player. He would have saved us millions, or got much more for what we have spent. It is incredibly naive to expect that the players we have bought somehow would guarantee promotion, the stated aim. Some, Grabban, Tubbs, O'Kane have excelled in League two but are untried at this level and will take time to find their feet in a more competitive division. Others, Cook, Addison, Francis, were surplus to requirements at bigger clubs. Others, Barnard, Elphick, Hughes have had long term injuries and/or serious time out of the game. Demogue and Davids appear to have arrived with injuries and lacking fitness. Just because we spent money on them doesn't mean they will immediately improve the team. It's ironic that despite the investment, the players Groves has relied upon and who arguably have performed better, have been those bought under the previous era, who are on much less extravagant contracts. Arter, Pugh, MacDonald, Partington and Carmichael have all put in creditable performances this season. None of the first three have played in the last three awful games. There's a serious case to make that the new players are currently no better than the previous ones 3. Tactics. To play a diamond requires precision and confidence. It can work, but opportunities are more limited, a cost for greater control. Our side lack precision in passing and in taking chances and once chances are missed resort to long ball. Lack of width makes us easy to keep out. The sides that do well in this league all have pace, width, a midfield general and a reliable striker. We struggle to match them in all four areas. The diamond has sapped confidence. Charlie Daniels is a case in point. The partnership with Pugh, given our striking potential, should be deadly, but their chances have been limited by the formation. 4. Captaincy. For me Addison looks slow. Zubar and Cook have hardly put a foot wrong when partnered together. But by making Addison captain we have made it impossible to pick the best centre back pairing. I wonder whether the captaincy was part of the contract negotiation. 5. Man management. The task given to Groves was almost unprecedented in this league. I can't think of any club who have been successful with this model. In short he has been set up to fail. Bringing Redknapp back may have been an attempt to boost the gate, but further undermined his position in an already fractious dressing room. What to do. 1. Stop talking about promotion. 2. Secure safe long term investment with the aim of growing the club and the business, so that we are not in a position whereby ot’s promotion or bust. 3. Develop a proper scouting process, which will be vital to long term development. 4. Install a proven manager, who will need to be given the authority and control to rationalise the squad and build a team over the next three to five years. Not because Groves was a poor coach, but because we have created a mess which he was unable to extricate us from. Then we will have a club that feels right to support.

Agree completely.
You should be the next Manager!

Well said Shwan99.

They say that you should never return to your old club....anyone remember Freddie Cox?
In his first spell a hero, second time around villified.
Have the signings of Mcquoid,Mcdermott and Tubbs really improved the squad?
Can we please be told....were Demouge,Davids, O'Kane etc etc Paul Groves signings or Tom Mitchell playing fantasy football manager with a scattergun?
I have reason to believe that few of the players brought in where Paul Groves own personal choice, correctly scouted and with due diligence undertaken re character, injury record, left footed/right footed, pace, what he can add to the shape and balance of the squad etc

shwan99 wrote:
Rarely on here, and forgive the lenght of this, but in my view these are the reasons why we are where we are

1. Planning and Managing Expectation.
There seems to be little in the way of a long term strategic view from board level. Once money came into the club it was spent first in January to try to gain promotion immediately, and then in the summer, to try to gain promotion this season. There's very little recognition that that model seldom works. Look at the clubs who have been promoted in League One since 2007: Swansea City, Nottingham Forest, Doncaster, Leicester City, Scunthorpe United, Norwich City, Leeds United, Millwall, Brighton, Southampton Peterborough, Charlton, Wednesday. Huddersfield Town, all much bigger clubs in terms of investment and support base, with the possible exception of Scunthorpe and Doncaster. To state, as the chairman and captain did before the Portsmouth game, that the aim was immediate promotion raises ridiculous expectations and puts increased pressure on players.
A further consequence of the way the money has been spent is that we now have a group of players on startlingly varied contracts. This has destroyed the spirit that was there and communicated to the fans under previous management. It was a huge factor in why fans came.
2. Player purchases.
The current management have demonstrated just how important our scouting regime was to the club. The departure of Joe Roache was a critical error. Howe's team was built on his knowledge and eye for a player. He would have saved us millions, or got much more for what we have spent.
It is incredibly naive to expect that the players we have bought somehow would guarantee promotion, the stated aim. Some, Grabban, Tubbs, O'Kane have excelled in League two but are untried at this level and will take time to find their feet in a more competitive division. Others, Cook, Addison, Francis, were surplus to requirements at bigger clubs. Others, Barnard, Elphick, Hughes have had long term injuries and/or serious time out of the game. Demogue and Davids appear to have arrived with injuries and lacking fitness. Just because we spent money on them doesn't mean they will immediately improve the team.
It's ironic that despite the investment, the players Groves has relied upon and who arguably have performed better, have been those bought under the previous era, who are on much less extravagant contracts. Arter, Pugh, MacDonald, Partington and Carmichael have all put in creditable performances this season. None of the first three have played in the last three awful games. There's a serious case to make that the new players are currently no better than the previous ones
3. Tactics.
To play a diamond requires precision and confidence. It can work, but opportunities are more limited, a cost for greater control. Our side lack precision in passing and in taking chances and once chances are missed resort to long ball. Lack of width makes us easy to keep out. The sides that do well in this league all have pace, width, a midfield general and a reliable striker. We struggle to match them in all four areas. The diamond has sapped confidence. Charlie Daniels is a case in point. The partnership with Pugh, given our striking potential, should be deadly, but their chances have been limited by the formation.
4. Captaincy.
For me Addison looks slow. Zubar and Cook have hardly put a foot wrong when partnered together. But by making Addison captain we have made it impossible to pick the best centre back pairing. I wonder whether the captaincy was part of the contract negotiation.
5. Man management.
The task given to Groves was almost unprecedented in this league. I can't think of any club who have been successful with this model. In short he has been set up to fail. Bringing Redknapp back may have been an attempt to boost the gate, but further undermined his position in an already fractious dressing room.

What to do.
1. Stop talking about promotion.
2. Secure safe long term investment with the aim of growing the club and the business, so that we are not in a position whereby ot’s promotion or bust.
3. Develop a proper scouting process, which will be vital to long term development.
4. Install a proven manager, who will need to be given the authority and control to rationalise the squad and build a team over the next three to five years. Not because Groves was a poor coach, but because we have created a mess which he was unable to extricate us from.

Then we will have a club that feels right to support.

Exellent post and I totally agree Shwan - but we have to appoint the right people to the right positions and remove others from certain positions both on and off the pitch. We have to get this right this time because before you know it time will be up for AFCB. We cannot continue with this debacle any longer for the sake of the club itself - UTC!

It is always sad when men lose their jobs and certainly Paul Groves seemed to be a decent man, but sadly not up to the job But unfortunately, the very survival of the Club is at stake, The gamble to spend, spend ,spend, has failed, support was dropping like a stone and with that income and the Club's finances must be in a parlous state.We need a Manager who can bring this motley crew together and get them playing decent football, stop the rot and try and build support, not that it will be easy to persuade the missing 3000 to come back - some never will. I fear for the Club's future and believe that there is a distinct possibility for Admistration next year or a Receiver put in if Max has had enough. Entirely agree with Wookj1, Joe's eye for a players potential, and his ability to judge young players potential has been sorely missed. Shaun Brookes was the man behind his being forced out. so wont be shedding a tear over his departure! Joe, Eddie and Jason were a great team and we were so lucky to have them here - wish it had been for longer! .

It is always sad when men lose their jobs and certainly Paul Groves seemed to be a decent man, but sadly not up to the job But unfortunately, the very survival of the Club is at stake, The gamble to spend, spend ,spend, has failed, support was dropping like a stone and with that income and the Club's finances must be in a parlous state.We need a Manager who can bring this motley crew together and get them playing decent football, stop the rot and try and build support, not that it will be easy to persuade the missing 3000 to come back - some never will. I fear for the Club's future and believe that there is a distinct possibility for Admistration next year or a Receiver put in if Max has had enough. Entirely agree with Wookj1, Joe's eye for a players potential, and his ability to judge young players potential has been sorely missed. Shaun Brookes was the man behind his being forced out. so wont be shedding a tear over his departure! Joe, Eddie and Jason were a great team and we were so lucky to have them here - wish it had been for longer! .

In 1997/98, Paul Groves was part of the Grimsby Town team which took 6 points off us in the league, costing us a play-off place, and then broke our hearts in our one and only appearance at Wembley. For these reasons alone, he can never be forgiven!
Shwan99, that's a top post, highlighting just about everything that's wrong at the club presently. As for Who's the man to sort it out, I haven't got a clue!

Shwan99, Tom would be able to throw away his Xbox with you as an advisor!!

Bottom line is that Groves is a good coach but he's not cut out to be a manager. He doesn't have the gravitas or strength of character to deal with player's egos and he never had their respect. This was clear for all to see in their inept performances which were clearly designed to get rid of him asap. It worked. Now it's time for the players to show the fans what they can really do and start playing as a team.

Great Article, exactly what I thought to a tee! Lets get a proven manager in now and get things going at AFBC!

The strategy that Eddie Howe Jason and Joe had for the Club, develop home grown players through the Youth System, scour the lower leagues for players with talent and character, bring them in and help them to develop their game was the right one for a small Club like ours.It was dependent of course on tight fiscal controls and good management.of the off field matters (which is where it all went so wrong). We should be looking for a Manager with this ethos and the ability to make it work. Though what do we do about the Clan Mitchell?.

I havent watched bournemouth since the days when you were all trying to hound Tony Pulis out. And look how well he's doing now. I would hope for Paul Groves sake that he will learn from this experience and be doing as well in two decades.

Is Shwan99, the real Shwan Jalal ? either way exactly spot on. It proves exactly what Mitchell and son don't know about football..

shwan99 wrote:
Rarely on here, and forgive the lenght of this, but in my view these are the reasons why we are where we are

1. Planning and Managing Expectation.
There seems to be little in the way of a long term strategic view from board level. Once money came into the club it was spent first in January to try to gain promotion immediately, and then in the summer, to try to gain promotion this season. There's very little recognition that that model seldom works. Look at the clubs who have been promoted in League One since 2007: Swansea City, Nottingham Forest, Doncaster, Leicester City, Scunthorpe United, Norwich City, Leeds United, Millwall, Brighton, Southampton Peterborough, Charlton, Wednesday. Huddersfield Town, all much bigger clubs in terms of investment and support base, with the possible exception of Scunthorpe and Doncaster. To state, as the chairman and captain did before the Portsmouth game, that the aim was immediate promotion raises ridiculous expectations and puts increased pressure on players.
A further consequence of the way the money has been spent is that we now have a group of players on startlingly varied contracts. This has destroyed the spirit that was there and communicated to the fans under previous management. It was a huge factor in why fans came.
2. Player purchases.
The current management have demonstrated just how important our scouting regime was to the club. The departure of Joe Roache was a critical error. Howe's team was built on his knowledge and eye for a player. He would have saved us millions, or got much more for what we have spent.
It is incredibly naive to expect that the players we have bought somehow would guarantee promotion, the stated aim. Some, Grabban, Tubbs, O'Kane have excelled in League two but are untried at this level and will take time to find their feet in a more competitive division. Others, Cook, Addison, Francis, were surplus to requirements at bigger clubs. Others, Barnard, Elphick, Hughes have had long term injuries and/or serious time out of the game. Demogue and Davids appear to have arrived with injuries and lacking fitness. Just because we spent money on them doesn't mean they will immediately improve the team.
It's ironic that despite the investment, the players Groves has relied upon and who arguably have performed better, have been those bought under the previous era, who are on much less extravagant contracts. Arter, Pugh, MacDonald, Partington and Carmichael have all put in creditable performances this season. None of the first three have played in the last three awful games. There's a serious case to make that the new players are currently no better than the previous ones
3. Tactics.
To play a diamond requires precision and confidence. It can work, but opportunities are more limited, a cost for greater control. Our side lack precision in passing and in taking chances and once chances are missed resort to long ball. Lack of width makes us easy to keep out. The sides that do well in this league all have pace, width, a midfield general and a reliable striker. We struggle to match them in all four areas. The diamond has sapped confidence. Charlie Daniels is a case in point. The partnership with Pugh, given our striking potential, should be deadly, but their chances have been limited by the formation.
4. Captaincy.
For me Addison looks slow. Zubar and Cook have hardly put a foot wrong when partnered together. But by making Addison captain we have made it impossible to pick the best centre back pairing. I wonder whether the captaincy was part of the contract negotiation.
5. Man management.
The task given to Groves was almost unprecedented in this league. I can't think of any club who have been successful with this model. In short he has been set up to fail. Bringing Redknapp back may have been an attempt to boost the gate, but further undermined his position in an already fractious dressing room.

What to do.
1. Stop talking about promotion.
2. Secure safe long term investment with the aim of growing the club and the business, so that we are not in a position whereby ot’s promotion or bust.
3. Develop a proper scouting process, which will be vital to long term development.
4. Install a proven manager, who will need to be given the authority and control to rationalise the squad and build a team over the next three to five years. Not because Groves was a poor coach, but because we have created a mess which he was unable to extricate us from.

Then we will have a club that feels right to support.

well said excellent post someone knows what they are talking about

matt68 wrote:

shwan99 wrote:
Rarely on here, and forgive the lenght of this, but in my view these are the reasons why we are where we are

1. Planning and Managing Expectation.
There seems to be little in the way of a long term strategic view from board level. Once money came into the club it was spent first in January to try to gain promotion immediately, and then in the summer, to try to gain promotion this season. There's very little recognition that that model seldom works. Look at the clubs who have been promoted in League One since 2007: Swansea City, Nottingham Forest, Doncaster, Leicester City, Scunthorpe United, Norwich City, Leeds United, Millwall, Brighton, Southampton Peterborough, Charlton, Wednesday. Huddersfield Town, all much bigger clubs in terms of investment and support base, with the possible exception of Scunthorpe and Doncaster. To state, as the chairman and captain did before the Portsmouth game, that the aim was immediate promotion raises ridiculous expectations and puts increased pressure on players.
A further consequence of the way the money has been spent is that we now have a group of players on startlingly varied contracts. This has destroyed the spirit that was there and communicated to the fans under previous management. It was a huge factor in why fans came.
2. Player purchases.
The current management have demonstrated just how important our scouting regime was to the club. The departure of Joe Roache was a critical error. Howe's team was built on his knowledge and eye for a player. He would have saved us millions, or got much more for what we have spent.
It is incredibly naive to expect that the players we have bought somehow would guarantee promotion, the stated aim. Some, Grabban, Tubbs, O'Kane have excelled in League two but are untried at this level and will take time to find their feet in a more competitive division. Others, Cook, Addison, Francis, were surplus to requirements at bigger clubs. Others, Barnard, Elphick, Hughes have had long term injuries and/or serious time out of the game. Demogue and Davids appear to have arrived with injuries and lacking fitness. Just because we spent money on them doesn't mean they will immediately improve the team.
It's ironic that despite the investment, the players Groves has relied upon and who arguably have performed better, have been those bought under the previous era, who are on much less extravagant contracts. Arter, Pugh, MacDonald, Partington and Carmichael have all put in creditable performances this season. None of the first three have played in the last three awful games. There's a serious case to make that the new players are currently no better than the previous ones
3. Tactics.
To play a diamond requires precision and confidence. It can work, but opportunities are more limited, a cost for greater control. Our side lack precision in passing and in taking chances and once chances are missed resort to long ball. Lack of width makes us easy to keep out. The sides that do well in this league all have pace, width, a midfield general and a reliable striker. We struggle to match them in all four areas. The diamond has sapped confidence. Charlie Daniels is a case in point. The partnership with Pugh, given our striking potential, should be deadly, but their chances have been limited by the formation.
4. Captaincy.
For me Addison looks slow. Zubar and Cook have hardly put a foot wrong when partnered together. But by making Addison captain we have made it impossible to pick the best centre back pairing. I wonder whether the captaincy was part of the contract negotiation.
5. Man management.
The task given to Groves was almost unprecedented in this league. I can't think of any club who have been successful with this model. In short he has been set up to fail. Bringing Redknapp back may have been an attempt to boost the gate, but further undermined his position in an already fractious dressing room.

What to do.
1. Stop talking about promotion.
2. Secure safe long term investment with the aim of growing the club and the business, so that we are not in a position whereby ot’s promotion or bust.
3. Develop a proper scouting process, which will be vital to long term development.
4. Install a proven manager, who will need to be given the authority and control to rationalise the squad and build a team over the next three to five years. Not because Groves was a poor coach, but because we have created a mess which he was unable to extricate us from.

Then we will have a club that feels right to support.

well said excellent post someone knows what they are talking about

Good post and good points. One step at a time.

AFC Bournemouth has shown that throwing money at players who maybe great on paper does not make a team.

Look at England - all expensive players and arguably, maybe the most expensive team in the world..on paper but put them together and you get a half baked mediocre national team. This tells me there is more to it than big signings.

Fix that, and you got a great football club.

wookj1 wrote:
They say that you should never return to your old club....anyone remember Freddie Cox?
In his first spell a hero, second time around villified.
Have the signings of Mcquoid,Mcdermott and Tubbs really improved the squad?
Can we please be told....were Demouge,Davids, O'Kane etc etc Paul Groves signings or Tom Mitchell playing fantasy football manager with a scattergun?
I have reason to believe that few of the players brought in where Paul Groves own personal choice, correctly scouted and with due diligence undertaken re character, injury record, left footed/right footed, pace, what he can add to the shape and balance of the squad etc

I was told that the first time Bradbury was told we had signed Tubbs was when Tubbs appeared at the training ground with Tom Mitchell.

I would hazard a guess that Steve Gritt and Paul Groves were the last to know of our signings.

shwan99 wrote:
Rarely on here, and forgive the lenght of this, but in my view these are the reasons why we are where we are

1. Planning and Managing Expectation.
There seems to be little in the way of a long term strategic view from board level. Once money came into the club it was spent first in January to try to gain promotion immediately, and then in the summer, to try to gain promotion this season. There's very little recognition that that model seldom works. Look at the clubs who have been promoted in League One since 2007: Swansea City, Nottingham Forest, Doncaster, Leicester City, Scunthorpe United, Norwich City, Leeds United, Millwall, Brighton, Southampton Peterborough, Charlton, Wednesday. Huddersfield Town, all much bigger clubs in terms of investment and support base, with the possible exception of Scunthorpe and Doncaster. To state, as the chairman and captain did before the Portsmouth game, that the aim was immediate promotion raises ridiculous expectations and puts increased pressure on players.
A further consequence of the way the money has been spent is that we now have a group of players on startlingly varied contracts. This has destroyed the spirit that was there and communicated to the fans under previous management. It was a huge factor in why fans came.
2. Player purchases.
The current management have demonstrated just how important our scouting regime was to the club. The departure of Joe Roache was a critical error. Howe's team was built on his knowledge and eye for a player. He would have saved us millions, or got much more for what we have spent.
It is incredibly naive to expect that the players we have bought somehow would guarantee promotion, the stated aim. Some, Grabban, Tubbs, O'Kane have excelled in League two but are untried at this level and will take time to find their feet in a more competitive division. Others, Cook, Addison, Francis, were surplus to requirements at bigger clubs. Others, Barnard, Elphick, Hughes have had long term injuries and/or serious time out of the game. Demogue and Davids appear to have arrived with injuries and lacking fitness. Just because we spent money on them doesn't mean they will immediately improve the team.
It's ironic that despite the investment, the players Groves has relied upon and who arguably have performed better, have been those bought under the previous era, who are on much less extravagant contracts. Arter, Pugh, MacDonald, Partington and Carmichael have all put in creditable performances this season. None of the first three have played in the last three awful games. There's a serious case to make that the new players are currently no better than the previous ones
3. Tactics.
To play a diamond requires precision and confidence. It can work, but opportunities are more limited, a cost for greater control. Our side lack precision in passing and in taking chances and once chances are missed resort to long ball. Lack of width makes us easy to keep out. The sides that do well in this league all have pace, width, a midfield general and a reliable striker. We struggle to match them in all four areas. The diamond has sapped confidence. Charlie Daniels is a case in point. The partnership with Pugh, given our striking potential, should be deadly, but their chances have been limited by the formation.
4. Captaincy.
For me Addison looks slow. Zubar and Cook have hardly put a foot wrong when partnered together. But by making Addison captain we have made it impossible to pick the best centre back pairing. I wonder whether the captaincy was part of the contract negotiation.
5. Man management.
The task given to Groves was almost unprecedented in this league. I can't think of any club who have been successful with this model. In short he has been set up to fail. Bringing Redknapp back may have been an attempt to boost the gate, but further undermined his position in an already fractious dressing room.

What to do.
1. Stop talking about promotion.
2. Secure safe long term investment with the aim of growing the club and the business, so that we are not in a position whereby ot’s promotion or bust.
3. Develop a proper scouting process, which will be vital to long term development.
4. Install a proven manager, who will need to be given the authority and control to rationalise the squad and build a team over the next three to five years. Not because Groves was a poor coach, but because we have created a mess which he was unable to extricate us from.

Then we will have a club that feels right to support.

What an excellent post Shwan99.

That is exactly what needs to be done however it won't be because we have a chairman whose self and family interests come first and have done since the start of his tenure in 2009.

It will only work if Max Demin buys out the Mitchell family's 50% shareholding and we go back to basics and start a new business model with the raison d'etre being AFCB and football on the pitch to entertain the fans rather than being for the well being of the Mitchell family.