Prayers could be off Dorset councils agendas (From Thisisdorset)

Back in 1948/9,my school,The St Hilary Private School,Parkstone,alw
ays had prayers at the start of lessons,but as new younger teachers were brought in they rebelled against this and would walk out,defying the very strict headmaster,Col Martin,several pupils also disagreed, but had no say,times have not changed.

I agree with this ruling, I fail to see the justification in forcing any religion down peoples throat against their wishes.

To see any connection between some of our Councillors and anything resembling religion seems odd, thought they all worshiped Mammon.

A rare victory for common sense. Fairy stories have no place in politics or council meetings.

Very happy about the High Court ruling. Now its time to remove compulsory religion from all public life including schools. I became an atheist when I was 14 but was forced to attend RE classes and school assemblies to listen to stories of about a non-existent God and mumbo jumbo. We complain about Islamic countries and their adherence to their religion but we are just as bad.

Looking at the above comments it is no wonder that this country is heading for oblivion.
MY country was founded on a respect for God, Monarch, law and people.
What have we got left?
A bunch of self serving individuals who dont understand any sentence that does not contain the words "I or me".
With the import of people from far and wide it is just a question of time before Sharia law is the law of the land.
Every civilisation since the stone age has had a God of some sort.
With the passing of the God we grew up with this country will become a vacuum.
It will be filled.
Just take a look.
Most people need a god and they will have one.
I would like to say "God help us" but at this present time most of you would not understand me!

I suspect that many of the attendees at the council meeting are not really religious at all - only the minority are Christians. It makes sense for those who want to continue praying to organise their prayer in a separate room before the meeting (there's no legal reason why they shouldn't do this).

You can just imagine this scenario at a council meeting.
The Mayor / Civic Leader will invite a chaplain / or nominated person to say prayers. At this point, anyone who does not want to take part is free to leave the chamber / room.
During these prayers should non-Christians be forced to leave the meeting ? If not, and we are allowed to sit through the prayers without taking part (as I have done as a citizen observer), then they surely cannot be a mandatory part of the meeting.
So why have them on the agenda and the minutes ? We face the problem of Christian prayer that cannot be enforced without violating freedom of religion, yet cannot be removed from its official status without upsetting 'tradition'.
Which is more important, the rights of the individual or tradition ?

elite50 wrote:
Looking at the above comments it is no wonder that this country is heading for oblivion.
MY country was founded on a respect for God, Monarch, law and people.
What have we got left?
A bunch of self serving individuals who dont understand any sentence that does not contain the words "I or me".
With the import of people from far and wide it is just a question of time before Sharia law is the law of the land.
Every civilisation since the stone age has had a God of some sort.
With the passing of the God we grew up with this country will become a vacuum.
It will be filled.
Just take a look.
Most people need a god and they will have one.
I would like to say "God help us" but at this present time most of you would not understand me!

Those of us who do not have compunction to pray or worship any god should be shown the same respect which is afforded to those that do.
Nobody should be forced into any club membership against their wishes, religion is in my view the root of all evil, it divides people across the world, I would have thought in the 21st century modern man and woman would have grown out of worshiping a 2000 year old myth and all the hocus pocus that goes along with it.

perhaps the council were relying on there prayers to get them out of the mess they have created in the town over the years and have come to realise not even prayers can work when it comes to repairing the damage they have done over the years

elite50 wrote:
Looking at the above comments it is no wonder that this country is heading for oblivion.
MY country was founded on a respect for God, Monarch, law and people.
What have we got left?
A bunch of self serving individuals who dont understand any sentence that does not contain the words "I or me".
With the import of people from far and wide it is just a question of time before Sharia law is the law of the land.
Every civilisation since the stone age has had a God of some sort.
With the passing of the God we grew up with this country will become a vacuum.
It will be filled.
Just take a look.
Most people need a god and they will have one.
I would like to say "God help us" but at this present time most of you would not understand me!

What would have been a fair comment for prayers and belief was ruined by your stupid comment about sharia law. If this is what a belief in god does then perhaps we are better off without her

The following is an editorial by Terry Sanderson the President of the NSS published yesterday in their newsletter. It will be interesting to see whether any of this editorial is presented in the media.


"As we contemplate the implications of the High Court decision that the saying of prayers as part of local council business is illegal, the National Secular Society is bracing for an absolute torrent of abuse, exaggeration, misrepresentation and hysteria from conservative sources.

There will be a repeat of the usual accusations that we have destroyed Christianity in Britain, trampled religious freedom, taken away the right to pray, discriminated against believers, hijacked the judicial system etc., etc. Already James Dingemans QC, who acted for Bideford Council, has said: "The Coronation Oath would need to be abolished; the council's involvement in services of remembrance would be prevented; and chaplains would not be able to serve in HM Armed Forces."

So, in anticipation of all this predictable stuff — which will flood the Daily Mail and Telegraph — here are a few attempts at balancing the reaction.

1 Nobody will be stopped from praying. The only restriction will be on when they pray. Councillors who want to can still get together before the meeting and make their invocations. Otherwise, councils are secular institutions engaged in civic business, they are not churches, and prayers cannot be part of their official agenda.

2 This is a ruling about a breach of the Local Government Act. It applies therefore only to local government. Silly claims that the Coronation Oath will be illegal and prayers in Parliament will have to cease — and even that councillors will be banned from attending Remembrance Day Services — and even, as was claimed by one prominent evangelical Christian at the Oxford Union yesterday, that the saying of grace before meals will be outlawed – are all untrue.

3 Religious liberty is in no way compromised by this ruling. Everyone in this country is free to practise a religion in any way they want to – within the law. As this judgment shows, praying as part of council business is not within the law. Of course, if councillors want to pray during their duties, they can do it silently and who could stop them? Surely if a prayer is to an omnipotent God, it would be just as effective inside the head as one that is spoken? The problem comes from the way the phrase "religious freedom" has been redefined by the churches to mean not only that they are free to worship according to their lights, but that they are entitled to privilege and to impose their beliefs on others.

4 Studies show that huge numbers of people in this country have no religion, don't want any religion and, increasingly, are hostile to religion. Why — as a condition of serving their community — should they be forced to participate in an activity that goes against their conscience?

5 Members of other religions are also increasingly participating in our local democracies. We can no longer insist that only Christian prayers are said and, as we have seen in Portsmouth, attempts at multi-faith prayers can result in believers of other religions walking out because they don't want to participate. This could be catastrophic for community relations and is completely avoidable if prayers are said voluntarily away from the council chamber.

None of this will stop the Christian Institute and the Christian Concern people making outlandish claims about their religion being brutally murdered by heartless secularists.

But these same people will have to accept that not everyone is a Christian, not everyone wants to be a Christian and their selfish demands for Christianity to have special privileges sound more and more arrogant."

Yet again people including the NSS are misrepresenting this case.

The fact is that with one exception Bideford Town Council wanted to have prayers on their Agenda. No one was forcing them too. It was just one member (now ex-member) who objected.

It seems that Christians are being accused of wanting to impose their views upon others but in this case the NSS have again sought to impose their view upon the majority. So who is it that is intolerant?

The only reason why the CofE is the recognised religion of England is that Henry VIII wanted to bed any female he wanted to. Nothing to do with a medieval belief system, but more with his uncontrollable ****.

The CofE are desperately trying to hold onto what little power they have left by issuing scare stories. Religion is only a way of social control. The poor can remain poor as they will receive their reward in heaven. As the old hymn said "The rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate"

We are now a multicultural country and a state sponsored religion should not be imposed on those who do not believe in a fictional God (my position) or of another faith.

The majority of people do not believe in religion, witness the empty churches on a Sunday. I also have several friends with Muslim heritage who have rejected Islam for a secularism. All religion, and its built in hatred of anyone who does not agree with their particular take on the fairy story, is on the way out. And in my view the sooner the better.

s-pb2 wrote:

elite50 wrote: Looking at the above comments it is no wonder that this country is heading for oblivion. MY country was founded on a respect for God, Monarch, law and people. What have we got left? A bunch of self serving individuals who dont understand any sentence that does not contain the words "I or me". With the import of people from far and wide it is just a question of time before Sharia law is the law of the land. Every civilisation since the stone age has had a God of some sort. With the passing of the God we grew up with this country will become a vacuum. It will be filled. Just take a look. Most people need a god and they will have one. I would like to say "God help us" but at this present time most of you would not understand me!

What would have been a fair comment for prayers and belief was ruined by your stupid comment about sharia law. If this is what a belief in god does then perhaps we are better off without her

Stupid comment?
NONE of the people from Muslim countries are throwing away their God.
I think Mr. Newton explained about a vacuum better than any bra-burner ever could.

The word that the Echo censored in my comment is not rude or offensive in fact its in the Bible. It is tusl (rearrange the first and last letters). The Echo is really pathetic!

poolebob wrote:
Yet again people including the NSS are misrepresenting this case.

The fact is that with one exception Bideford Town Council wanted to have prayers on their Agenda. No one was forcing them too. It was just one member (now ex-member) who objected.

It seems that Christians are being accused of wanting to impose their views upon others but in this case the NSS have again sought to impose their view upon the majority. So who is it that is intolerant?

The fact is that Bideford is one of many councils that insist on prayers as part of the agenda for official council meetings despite objections from many councillors who feel that it doesn't accurately reflect their community to whom they are serving. Also there are many councillors of differing faith or no faith that feel they are forced to take part thus compromising their own principles.
The fact is that to date Mr Bone is the only person who felt strongly enough to challenge this tradition enlisting the help of the NSS. Initially the NSS were involved to mediate a compromise that Bideford council point blank refused. Due to this mediation failure and because of the many complaints about other councils the NSS then chose to challenge the legality of this tradition using Bideford as a test case, hoping that the outcome would set a precedent that other councils will need to follow.

I do not mind mandatory prayers being taken out if the majority do not wish to uphold them. But the real question is, where does this end? When will we stop cutting religion to its barebones, because whether you like it or not, religion is tradition. Thus by cutting out religion you are destroying parts of tradition that have gone on for many years, of course there is nothing wrong with modernizing, but then there is lunacy and i feel that this ruling is one step closer. There is secularism, and religous intolerance. Look at us versus France, we are secular, they are intolerant. If this country begins to teach religous intolerence then where does it end? Does it end at cultural intolerance, class intolerance? You the reader must decide where does this end. I would like to finally point out that Evangelicalism and Atheism are two of the same, they are both extremes, one saying God does exsist, believe it! The other saying God does not exsist, believe it! A perfect country would be agnostic, not deciding either, but this agressive secularisation is showing just how extreme the (anti) religous institutions will go to cut out any remaining belief to the point of intolerence, which will be a sad say to us all.