UPDATED: Cafe Shore in liquidation (From Thisisdorset)
When news happens send us your pictures, video and views. Text BE to 80360 or contact us by email
UPDATED: Cafe Shore in liquidation
5:10am Saturday 16th March 2013 in Latest By Arron Hendy
Cafe Shore in liquidation - but it's still trading
THE company behind a prestigious restaurant has gone into liquidation with debts of £404,000.
Cafe Shore Limited in Sandbanks has entered into insolvency proceedings as it
owes £219,000 to the taxman and £185,000 to other creditors.
Despite the liquidation the restaurant in Banks Road in Poole remains open as it
is now trading under Cafe Shore Holdings Ltd.
It is able to do so as the lease for the Banks Road property was owned by the holding company, which is now negotiating to purchase the furniture and kitchen equipment.
The taxman issued a winding up petition in January over the unpaid PAYE and
VAT.
Ben Brafman at Cafe Shore told the Echo at that point he planned to resolve the
“dispute” and the company was due back at Companies Court in London next month.
But when funds for the debts could not be raised it entered into a formal insolvency procedure and a meeting of creditors was announced by the London Gazette as taking place at HJS Recovery in Southampton.
The latest annual returns at Companies House, both dated in February, show Julia Brafman as the sole director at Cafe Shore Ltd and as a director alongside Ben Brafman at Cafe Shore Holdings Ltd.
Shane Biddlecombe, insolvency practitioner at HJS Recovery, said the company suffered cash flow problems during 2012 and accrued arrears of PAYE and VAT before the winding up petition was served.
He said: “The company was not able to obtain any additional funding and in view of the pending winding up petition had no alternative but to enter into a formal insolvency procedure.
He added: “The lease of the premises at Sandbanks is held by a different company, which continues to operate.
“The directors of that company are in negotiations with my agents in respect of purchasing the company’s assets, which consist of furniture and kitchen equipment.”
Mr Brafman and Julia Brafman did not provide a comment.
- THE lease for a business property is sometimes held in the name of a separate company in order to safeguard the future of business in the event of the trading company failing.
Julie Palmer, partner at business recovery specialists Begbies Traynor in Bournemouth, said it is “scant” consolation for creditors left out of pocket when businesses go under but it does mean jobs and livelihoods are protected.
She said: “In some ways that’s sensible business so that if the trading business fails that’s a way of reviving the business.”
She added: “The holding company will not be responsible for any of the debt of the liquidated company.
“Part of the duty of the liquidators will be to understand why that company has failed and to check the conduct and steps taken by the directors have been proper and reasonable.
“And if the liabilities are high that doesn’t mean the directors have done anything wrong.
“The trading conditions are difficult and they have probably been trying to struggle on manfully.”
Comments(104)
weevie
says...
12:48pm Fri 15 Mar 13
Anyway, "thank god" is all I can say. I was fed-up with all the posing prats outside every evening, bringing their monster gas-guzzlers down 500m just to park them outside.
Bloody ridiculous.
The Renegade Master
says...
12:51pm Fri 15 Mar 13
ts12345
says...
1:09pm Fri 15 Mar 13
Its still going to stay open.
The directors of the lease company are the same directors that own the cafe. directors have 2 buisnesses.
He will still run it the same, Be compleatly over priced and even the Toffs with the expencive cars on Finance will still be hanging aroud the place..
ts12345
says...
1:09pm Fri 15 Mar 13
Its still going to stay open.
The directors of the lease company are the same directors that own the cafe. directors have 2 buisnesses.
He will still run it the same, Be compleatly over priced and even the Toffs with the expencive cars on Finance will still be hanging aroud the place..
stevobath
says...
1:18pm Fri 15 Mar 13
ts12345 wrote:So true.
What difference is that going to make,
Its still going to stay open.
The directors of the lease company are the same directors that own the cafe. directors have 2 buisnesses.
He will still run it the same, Be compleatly over priced and even the Toffs with the expencive cars on Finance will still be hanging aroud the place..
Posers will still be showing off their daft OTT 4x4's etc.
Telscombe Cliffy
says...
1:25pm Fri 15 Mar 13
B.F.G
says...
1:30pm Fri 15 Mar 13
Good luck to whoever takes over, it's a brilliant venue in a fantastic location.
Telscombe Cliffy
says...
1:39pm Fri 15 Mar 13
B.F.G wrote:Yes but would you still go there if the bloke serving you the coffee this week is the same bloke who owed you thousands of pounds from the week before. Agree with you about the great location.
The usual green eyed naysayers with their narrow minded opinions and comments.
Good luck to whoever takes over, it's a brilliant venue in a fantastic location.
apm1954
says...
1:56pm Fri 15 Mar 13
matt68
says...
2:22pm Fri 15 Mar 13
Celestine71
says...
2:23pm Fri 15 Mar 13
Celestine71
says...
2:24pm Fri 15 Mar 13
Knowit...
says...
2:56pm Fri 15 Mar 13
ts12345
says...
2:56pm Fri 15 Mar 13
B.F.G wrote:Its still the same person owning it, just under a different name, so there wont be a new person taking it over.
The usual green eyed naysayers with their narrow minded opinions and comments.
Good luck to whoever takes over, it's a brilliant venue in a fantastic location.
ts12345
says...
2:56pm Fri 15 Mar 13
B.F.G wrote:Its still the same person owning it, just under a different name, so there wont be a new person taking it over.
The usual green eyed naysayers with their narrow minded opinions and comments.
Good luck to whoever takes over, it's a brilliant venue in a fantastic location.
gemlou06
says...
3:09pm Fri 15 Mar 13
muscliffman
says...
3:37pm Fri 15 Mar 13
Celestine71 wrote:No, Tesco's is way too upmarket dahling....... A '98p shop', that would change the area's tone! And the posing 4X4s people are commenting about, very yesterday if I may say - Merc have just launched a new 6x6, perfect for the school run too.
Perfect site for Tesco express..........!
But this does sound rather like a classic phoenix liquidation where one Company's debts are written off, but on the surface nothing actually changes.
sea poole
says...
3:38pm Fri 15 Mar 13
Dibbles2
says...
3:42pm Fri 15 Mar 13
weevie wrote:Quit simple really there was an echo article about the cafe a few doors down being owned by them and being refurbed so that when Cafe Shore was closed for private events people had somewhere else to go. I personally liked cafe shore and dont own a gas guzzler or live in Sandbanks.
Eh? Dibbles - what are you saying?
Anyway, "thank god" is all I can say. I was fed-up with all the posing prats outside every evening, bringing their monster gas-guzzlers down 500m just to park them outside.
Bloody ridiculous.
Dibbles2
says...
3:42pm Fri 15 Mar 13
The Renegade Master wrote:Its cheapr than the Jazz Cafe!
Proof that even toffs won't pay the stupid prices in there.
Bournemouth2014
says...
3:51pm Fri 15 Mar 13
Celestine71 wrote:Everything is breaking news! Imagine if they ran a real story! 'Genuine Breaking News'
Thinking about it......why is this breaking news? Does the echo announce every liquidation of a business as breaking news? Why is this so important?
l'anglais
says...
4:13pm Fri 15 Mar 13
Celestine71 wrote:Quite agreed, leave the Sandacres alone.
Perfect site for Tesco express..........!
BmthNewshound
says...
4:30pm Fri 15 Mar 13
awsokend
says...
4:45pm Fri 15 Mar 13
awsokend
says...
6:08pm Fri 15 Mar 13
tasted like it came from the bottom of that disgusting lake nearby.
the Canada geese where all wearing gas masks.
Bob49
says...
6:48pm Fri 15 Mar 13
Or that the supplies they were receiving would not be paid for ...
...and for how long did they continue with this behaviour ?
Until the taxman finally pulled the plug on this favourable arrangement, it would seem.
An arrangement that saw Julia Brafman bankrupt the company that was runing this cafe to the turn of nearly half a million ....then as part of a similarly named company simply continue running the cafe as if nothing has happened.
I wonder if a customer could get away with not paying for what he/her has had by claiming the 'funds for the bill could not be raised' ?
If you take a train journey or fill your car without the means to pay it is an offence - - whereas here it is a clever trick, with the pro criminal lobby all to willing to once again (on here) stick up for fraud.
JimDorset
says...
6:56pm Fri 15 Mar 13
MikeGB
says...
7:00pm Fri 15 Mar 13
John T
says...
7:43pm Fri 15 Mar 13
Bob49 wrote:Fraud or theft? Who cares when we are all in this together, and HMRC and Police enforcement agency's budgets are being cut by 20% by this Government?
"as it was unable to raise funds to pay £219,000 owed to HM Revenue and Customs.
It accrued arrears of PAYE and VAT"
eh ?
raise the funds ?
They already had the funds as in the vat they charged on food and drink, they have simply pocketed (stole) it.
like wise with the PAYE,All they have been doing there is paying cash in hand whilst misleading their employees by issueing documentation (wage slips) that they have been paying those deductions to the tax office,
If this was somebody taking benefit they were not entitled to there would be outrage, yet here we have the same with government money being purloined and what is said, nowt ?
In fact they will be free to restart all over again - fully knowing what they were doing.
Lets start calling it what it is,.. fraud !
Shouldn't the taxpayer be paying more to bail out these failing businesses, like they do with the banks?
MrPitiful
says...
7:44pm Fri 15 Mar 13
http://www.liveelite
.co.uk/bournemouth/
Steak & chips or mussels anyone?
Roband65
says...
8:51pm Fri 15 Mar 13
Bob49 wrote:Its called trading insolvent still taking on debt and trading knowing full well they could never pay it back.
At what point did they know that the VAT they were taking, was literally being taken by them ?
Or that the supplies they were receiving would not be paid for ...
...and for how long did they continue with this behaviour ?
Until the taxman finally pulled the plug on this favourable arrangement, it would seem.
An arrangement that saw Julia Brafman bankrupt the company that was runing this cafe to the turn of nearly half a million ....then as part of a similarly named company simply continue running the cafe as if nothing has happened.
I wonder if a customer could get away with not paying for what he/her has had by claiming the 'funds for the bill could not be raised' ?
If you take a train journey or fill your car without the means to pay it is an offence - - whereas here it is a clever trick, with the pro criminal lobby all to willing to once again (on here) stick up for fraud.
Tictock
says...
9:00pm Fri 15 Mar 13
Talkingheadera
says...
9:05pm Fri 15 Mar 13
Turn it into a nightclub with all that spare cash you have.
Hobad1
says...
9:12pm Fri 15 Mar 13
Yankee1
says...
10:09pm Fri 15 Mar 13
West Palm Beach is nicer...for less. And much bigger stars there. And better weather.
What IS the allure of Sandbanks?
gameon
says...
10:15pm Fri 15 Mar 13
MikeGB wrote:The Boathouse Poole Park flies an all ??
Nooooooooooo! If they close where will I go to get my overpriced manhandled gimmick food?
Bournemouth2014
says...
10:21pm Fri 15 Mar 13
Bob49
says...
10:38pm Fri 15 Mar 13
Bournemouth2014 wrote:Who it would seem,
Who cares!
having read the story, read through the posts, bothered to login
then post.
gameon
says...
10:59pm Fri 15 Mar 13
Yankee1 wrote:In the main people with no class the good ones have gone or going its full of Michells Tattoos and crass bentleys due to be flooded in years to come so the futures Bright.
Even the newly rich and popstar/football stars won't support this place.
West Palm Beach is nicer...for less. And much bigger stars there. And better weather.
What IS the allure of Sandbanks?
Rustyfootballer
says...
11:01pm Fri 15 Mar 13
MngsMnr
says...
11:33pm Fri 15 Mar 13
If you are accused by a liquidator of a company of WT then as Director you could be personally liable for the damage the company suffered during a period of WT.
So, HJS Recovery, what have you deduced from the non-payment of PAYE and VAT to the Revenue???
MngsMnr
says...
11:36pm Fri 15 Mar 13
Fraudulent trading necessarily involves dishonesty.
The maximum penalty for fraudulent trading is 10 years imprisonment.
GAHmusic
says...
11:43pm Fri 15 Mar 13
Celestine71 wrote:I was thinking the same myself and why do so many commentaters here care even
Thinking about it......why is this breaking news? Does the echo announce every liquidation of a business as breaking news? Why is this so important?
GAHmusic
says...
11:48pm Fri 15 Mar 13
Bournemouth2014 wrote:Yes you need that or breaking news that is gaurunteed at least 80% genuine story as scientists have found these bargain breaking news claim to at least have some meat to it but in fact are 99% horse :-)
Celestine71 wrote:Everything is breaking news! Imagine if they ran a real story! 'Genuine Breaking News'
Thinking about it......why is this breaking news? Does the echo announce every liquidation of a business as breaking news? Why is this so important?
MrPitiful
says...
4:53am Sat 16 Mar 13
GAHmusic wrote:Certain commentators have nowt else better to do with their time.
Celestine71 wrote:I was thinking the same myself and why do so many commentaters here care even
Thinking about it......why is this breaking news? Does the echo announce every liquidation of a business as breaking news? Why is this so important?
Lord Spring
says...
8:04am Sat 16 Mar 13
Well I can dream.
John T
says...
8:41am Sat 16 Mar 13
Lord Spring wrote:The local (sic) yachties, high rollers and local (sic) President of the Residents Association would not allow Wetherspoons rabble anywhere nearby. Sandbanks is a bit more upmarket than Lymington, don't you know, my Lord?!
And now for something completely different Tim Martin is going to turn it into the The Moon in the Sand.
Well I can dream.
John T
says...
9:10am Sat 16 Mar 13
nbraeman wrote:Or perhaps 'Insolvency practitioner helps Café, for shore, steal nearly quarter of a million pounds from tax payers.'
How about this for a better headline? "Incompetent or greedy? Cafe owners steal nearly quarter of a million pounds
from tax payers."
l'anglais
says...
10:11am Sat 16 Mar 13
On the same day her husband was appointer director.
Her Husband being Benjamin Brafman, who happens to be director of food establishments in the area;
Deli (Bournemouth) Limited
Coast Seafood Limited
Lucy Enterprises Limited.
Did I here Geoffrey BOYCOTT lives nearby?
BIGTONE
says...
10:16am Sat 16 Mar 13
185 Grand owing to creditors.......I can see him getting a tug from those businesses that go down the pan because of this.
The shoulders of his jacket will soon get worn out.
Roband65
says...
10:32am Sat 16 Mar 13
skydriver
says...
10:44am Sat 16 Mar 13
Celestine71 wrote:Asda,lidl,or Aldi.!,,,,
Perfect site for Tesco express..........!
family1
says...
12:01pm Sat 16 Mar 13
they had enough cash to buy the lease on the shop a few doors down and then had enough cash to pay for the renovation work of that site to turn it into a cafe.
It is not right that they can get away with it. In the end what will happen is it will prop be wipped as they will say the dont own it anymore it was a different company.
GAHmusic
says...
1:04pm Sat 16 Mar 13
John T wrote:It's not that I don't care about the general situation John or how it affects tax payers or how other bussinesses lose money I know it affects a lot of people but every day this is happening to shops, companies and individuals all over our area and they don't get mentioned so why focus on one cafe? By the way John comments about not being a tax payer are just personal and imature digs, if you have a point to make try doing it without the unfounded insults and you may get taken seriously
GAHmusic wrote:See @ 10.38, although you will probably have difficulty getting in tune, GAHmusic. After all, you are probably not one of the taxpayers who has been robbed by these thieves stealing your VAT payment.
Celestine71 wrote:I was thinking the same myself and why do so many commentaters here care even
Thinking about it......why is this breaking news? Does the echo announce every liquidation of a business as breaking news? Why is this so important?
Glashen
says...
1:55pm Sat 16 Mar 13
GAHmusic wrote:It is quite a high profile business and it is a large sum of money so maybe more noteworthy than some on that count, but I think the thing that incites comment is the way certain businesses walk away from large debts and apparently can carry on trading much as before without any downside.
John T wrote:It's not that I don't care about the general situation John or how it affects tax payers or how other bussinesses lose money I know it affects a lot of people but every day this is happening to shops, companies and individuals all over our area and they don't get mentioned so why focus on one cafe? By the way John comments about not being a tax payer are just personal and imature digs, if you have a point to make try doing it without the unfounded insults and you may get taken seriously
GAHmusic wrote:See @ 10.38, although you will probably have difficulty getting in tune, GAHmusic. After all, you are probably not one of the taxpayers who has been robbed by these thieves stealing your VAT payment.
Celestine71 wrote:I was thinking the same myself and why do so many commentaters here care even
Thinking about it......why is this breaking news? Does the echo announce every liquidation of a business as breaking news? Why is this so important?
-
I'm sure many businesses would like to have nearly half a million pounds of debt written off but the option to do it seems limited to those companies who think ahead about how to do it. Though the thinking presumably doesn't extend to the businesses and tax payer who lose out.
Hampshire Dorset
says...
2:42pm Sat 16 Mar 13
Danstevens
says...
3:46pm Sat 16 Mar 13
Danstevens
says...
3:48pm Sat 16 Mar 13
portia6
says...
4:05pm Sat 16 Mar 13
Yankee1 wrote:Beach huts?
Even the newly rich and popstar/football stars won't support this place.
West Palm Beach is nicer...for less. And much bigger stars there. And better weather.
What IS the allure of Sandbanks?
B.F.G
says...
4:17pm Sat 16 Mar 13
l'anglais wrote:At least get your facts right, Ben is Julia's son.
Why did the previous director, Julia Brafman resign in January 2013?
On the same day her husband was appointer director.
Her Husband being Benjamin Brafman, who happens to be director of food establishments in the area;
Deli (Bournemouth) Limited
Coast Seafood Limited
Lucy Enterprises Limited.
Did I here Geoffrey BOYCOTT lives nearby?
There's nothing I hate more than somebody who thinks they know more than they really do.
Most of the comments section on this 'story' are from jealous, spiteful and bitter no marks.
Arjay
says...
4:19pm Sat 16 Mar 13
May not be true of course.....
Hopefully, it will continue to operate - At least it serves the purpose of keeping the posers who frequent the venue in one place, away from normal people.
Heaven forbid if that kind descend on some other unsuspecting neighbourhood - especially 'en masse'.
No, lets try and keep them where they are, in their overpriced 'TOWIE' type world...
l'anglais
says...
4:25pm Sat 16 Mar 13
Danstevens wrote:Are you drunk or just a Capitalist?
Thank god it's staying open due to standard business practices of well places assets. I thought I was going to have one less place to pose and look upon the visiting paupers. Cafe Shores prices are there to filter the riff raff out. It's nice location, we wouldn't want a lovely location spoiled by hoodlums and people with no aspiration to actually make something of their lives. There is a reason it attracts negativity, the majority are afraid of what they will never possess.
l'anglais
says...
4:28pm Sat 16 Mar 13
B.F.G wrote:Sorry about the relationship mix up.
l'anglais wrote:At least get your facts right, Ben is Julia's son.
Why did the previous director, Julia Brafman resign in January 2013?
On the same day her husband was appointer director.
Her Husband being Benjamin Brafman, who happens to be director of food establishments in the area;
Deli (Bournemouth) Limited
Coast Seafood Limited
Lucy Enterprises Limited.
Did I here Geoffrey BOYCOTT lives nearby?
There's nothing I hate more than somebody who thinks they know more than they really do.
Most of the comments section on this 'story' are from jealous, spiteful and bitter no marks.
Why did she resign actually?
How are her other food related companies doing?
I hope they aren't being propped up by unpaid VAT and Tax payments siphoned off from Café Shore.
drmiss79
says...
4:57pm Sat 16 Mar 13
As at 30 April 2012 (last filed accounts) assets of £346k, and liabilities of £1.224m! So the company has a deficit of £878k, meaning the directors are trading whilst insolvent (a criminal offence?) and have been for a while.
Once again B Brafman is a director and shareholder. No doubt this will be the next company to fail and go bust!!!
Specialist
says...
5:14pm Sat 16 Mar 13
family1
says...
5:19pm Sat 16 Mar 13
l'anglais wrote:Hi it's her son, it's a joke how they can get away with it, loop holes are brilliant for people to get away with things like this. They will manage to some how have it written off.
Why did the previous director, Julia Brafman resign in January 2013?
On the same day her husband was appointer director.
Her Husband being Benjamin Brafman, who happens to be director of food establishments in the area;
Deli (Bournemouth) Limited
Coast Seafood Limited
Lucy Enterprises Limited.
Did I here Geoffrey BOYCOTT lives nearby?
The whole family is the same just look at the other side the Simons family who currently have priva and other things how many times have they opened and then closed a business!
charlie2004
says...
6:11pm Sat 16 Mar 13
B.F.G wrote:Wrong. Most of the comments on here are from law abiding citizen who feel sorry for the suppliers who may now go bust because Ben and his mummy have no morals. They have taken goods from these suppliers knowing that they would not be paying them for these supplies, had people working for them, knowing they won't be giving them their wages, but continue to prance around as if they are some sort of superior beings. There are a few well known people in this area who have done this time and time again and have been allowed to get away with it. Low lifes sums them up nicely.
l'anglais wrote:At least get your facts right, Ben is Julia's son.
Why did the previous director, Julia Brafman resign in January 2013?
On the same day her husband was appointer director.
Her Husband being Benjamin Brafman, who happens to be director of food establishments in the area;
Deli (Bournemouth) Limited
Coast Seafood Limited
Lucy Enterprises Limited.
Did I here Geoffrey BOYCOTT lives nearby?
There's nothing I hate more than somebody who thinks they know more than they really do.
Most of the comments section on this 'story' are from jealous, spiteful and bitter no marks.
Arjay
says...
7:50pm Sat 16 Mar 13
What is amazing - with the track record these people have - is that they still seem to manage to get credit, over and over again.
Don't suppliers do any checks?
Why would anyone give credit to any enterprise run by people with this kind of business record?...
Glashen
says...
8:15pm Sat 16 Mar 13
Arjay wrote:Good point, but Ben Brafman was telling the Echo a few weeks back it was just a misunderstanding with HM Customs and Revenue, no doubt he was telling his suppliers the same thing. I find it hard to believe a businessman could misunderstand the financial state of his company to such an extent but have the "foresight" to have the major asset in a different company. I think the official receiver must investigate these dealings, they appear to put honest companies at a disadvantage
charlie 2004 wrote:"There are a few well known people in this area who have done this time and time again and have been allowed to get away with it".
What is amazing - with the track record these people have - is that they still seem to manage to get credit, over and over again.
Don't suppliers do any checks?
Why would anyone give credit to any enterprise run by people with this kind of business record?...
grazzer
says...
8:22pm Sat 16 Mar 13
Klingon
says...
8:46pm Sat 16 Mar 13
Lord Spring
says...
9:00pm Sat 16 Mar 13
Klingon wrote:They do at least pay VAT and NHS Contributions and Employees Income Tax Deductions.
If large multinational chains don't pay tax why should any small business worry?
jakeysredd
says...
10:29pm Sat 16 Mar 13
LordLilliput
says...
10:39pm Sat 16 Mar 13
charlie2004 wrote:Very true.
B.F.G wrote:Wrong. Most of the comments on here are from law abiding citizen who feel sorry for the suppliers who may now go bust because Ben and his mummy have no morals. They have taken goods from these suppliers knowing that they would not be paying them for these supplies, had people working for them, knowing they won't be giving them their wages, but continue to prance around as if they are some sort of superior beings. There are a few well known people in this area who have done this time and time again and have been allowed to get away with it. Low lifes sums them up nicely.
l'anglais wrote:At least get your facts right, Ben is Julia's son.
Why did the previous director, Julia Brafman resign in January 2013?
On the same day her husband was appointer director.
Her Husband being Benjamin Brafman, who happens to be director of food establishments in the area;
Deli (Bournemouth) Limited
Coast Seafood Limited
Lucy Enterprises Limited.
Did I here Geoffrey BOYCOTT lives nearby?
There's nothing I hate more than somebody who thinks they know more than they really do.
Most of the comments section on this 'story' are from jealous, spiteful and bitter no marks.
I have no time for so called entrepreneurs who accumulate their wealthy by blatantly exploiting company loopholes for their own self gratifying gain. Whilst they consider themselves to be sharp and astute individuals most decent minded people see them for what they really are namely smug parasites that feed off of anyone who will trustingly extend them credit. In simple terms it is nothing more than immoral and unethical theft.
I have used the place in the past but will do so no more.
My advice to anyone who wishes to spend their money with honourable companies is to use:
companycheck.co.uk or
company-director-che
ck.co.uk
Quite enlightening.
verityvita
says...
11:19pm Sat 16 Mar 13
Gastines3
says...
7:15am Sun 17 Mar 13
Glashen
says...
11:42am Sun 17 Mar 13
Klingon wrote:Two wrongs don't make a right.
If large multinational chains don't pay tax why should any small business worry?
Arjay
says...
12:20pm Sun 17 Mar 13
Gastines3 wrote:Although you have to have some sympathy with those who have extended credit to these people the first time they 'try it on' as it were, it's a bit more difficult to have the same sympathy for those who are daft enough to extend credit to the same people for a second - or even third - time they try the scam.
It seems to be a regular dodge that the Government and HMRC have never had the foresight to impose a criminal charge on these dealings.I remember a local haulage company buying several new lorries at hundreds of thousands,going bust then the assets bought back at a fraction of the costs from the administrators by a family member.Same applied to a large double glazing firm who managed to do it twice and it's legal!! No thought for the firms,workers who end up out of pocket.Plenty of these fiddling B's out there.
It's not that difficult to trace the names of company directors... and if you do choose to give any credit to those individuals with a 'dodgy'? -- OK, let's just say 'poor' record -- then you're not really likely to be doing yourself any favours, business wise, are you?
lowemustgo
says...
1:19pm Sun 17 Mar 13
Why are we so judgmental about business in this country!
Why is it OK for Dreams, HMV, Comet, La Senza, DTZ, etc to suffer trading difficulties in this deep high street recession, but not OK for little Cafe Shore?
The whole point of trading through a 'limited' company has always been to encourage the creation of businesses and taking of risk. Without that there are no jobs, no tax revenues and nowhere to eat!
Sometimes in business people lose money and get hurt; sometimes they create wealth and prosperity.
That's capitalism and its what we do in this country.
Its sad that some want to sneer when things go wrong and be envious at success.
Yes - there are some rogues about, but not everyone in Poole is one!
l'anglais
says...
3:53pm Sun 17 Mar 13
lowemustgo wrote:Not everyone in society is envious of a capitalist's success when they rake it in or happy to sneer when it goes wrong.
Give Cafe Shore a chance!
Why are we so judgmental about business in this country!
Why is it OK for Dreams, HMV, Comet, La Senza, DTZ, etc to suffer trading difficulties in this deep high street recession, but not OK for little Cafe Shore?
The whole point of trading through a 'limited' company has always been to encourage the creation of businesses and taking of risk. Without that there are no jobs, no tax revenues and nowhere to eat!
Sometimes in business people lose money and get hurt; sometimes they create wealth and prosperity.
That's capitalism and its what we do in this country.
Its sad that some want to sneer when things go wrong and be envious at success.
Yes - there are some rogues about, but not everyone in Poole is one!
The problem is that Capitalism is unfair to all those who are not "Entrepreneurs".
Society is too reliant upon profit and the amount of money we use is the scale we use to whether we succeed or fail.
I would prefer to reward those who work hard to make society function correctly, rather than those who chase profit for profits sake.
oktellitasitis
says...
4:48pm Sun 17 Mar 13
Roband65
says...
5:48pm Sun 17 Mar 13
Glashen
says...
7:19pm Sun 17 Mar 13
lowemustgo wrote:It is the way the business continues apparently with the same owners having left behind unpaid tax and creditors. Miraculously the major business asset is in a different company. Apparently the owners and the foresight to plan for failure. The point is that there are plenty of people in business who know how to do this, they just choose not to and if they fail they accept the consequences. There is a serious question as to why a business like Cafe shore would build up so much debt, it may just be that the business is not profitable under the present ownership, in which case it would be best if someone else owned it or it closed.Alternatively it may have had more money taken out by the owners than it can support. Of course businesses fail, it is the Phoenix like rebirth under the same ownership that some of us want to question.
Give Cafe Shore a chance!
Why are we so judgmental about business in this country!
Why is it OK for Dreams, HMV, Comet, La Senza, DTZ, etc to suffer trading difficulties in this deep high street recession, but not OK for little Cafe Shore?
The whole point of trading through a 'limited' company has always been to encourage the creation of businesses and taking of risk. Without that there are no jobs, no tax revenues and nowhere to eat!
Sometimes in business people lose money and get hurt; sometimes they create wealth and prosperity.
That's capitalism and its what we do in this country.
Its sad that some want to sneer when things go wrong and be envious at success.
Yes - there are some rogues about, but not everyone in Poole is one!
boyerboy
says...
7:45pm Sun 17 Mar 13
grazzer wrote:Glad to see some one took the bait - but watch out there are many sharks around here...running up large bills then swimming off before they can be caught, perhaps HMRC will net them eventually ?
" know it " says there is not a sole in site most nights This is because Poole Harbour is the wrong" plaice" for sole at this time of year,Did he mean soul in sight or was he using a sprat to catch a mackerel or was the whole statement a red herring?
All seems fishy to me though, I did love the plaice, thought it was brill.
Arjay
says...
8:31pm Sun 17 Mar 13
What I fail to understand is how these 'Phoenix' companies, with the same owners, manage to get credit again.
Do local suppliers not check on the business history of the directors of these new ventures, before opening credit accounts with them?
Surely, they can't be that daft?.....
High Treason
says...
8:31pm Sun 17 Mar 13
Arjay
says...
10:02pm Sun 17 Mar 13
High Treason wrote:That's my point -- you clearly wouldn't extend any business credit to Mr. Mitchell, for the reasons you've made. You've bothered to check.....
It is known as legal robbery. many people do it leaving creditors unable to pay their bills and often their mortgage, their families suffering and the marriage breaking up. Children also suffer at the hands of these people. That is why I will never give any money to any company that is linked to Eddie Mitchell who has a history of bankruptcies.
So why do suppliers, asked to extend credit to these 'phoenix' companies, not bother to check to see who the directors of the new company are?
If they did, the companies would never get off the ground.....
Or do these unscrupulous business types simply rely on the fact that there seems to be an virtually unlimited supply of 'mugs', ready to extend credit to their new ventures?....
gameon
says...
10:26pm Sun 17 Mar 13
Bob49
says...
11:00pm Sun 17 Mar 13
lowemustgo wrote:Trading difficulties, eh ?
Give Cafe Shore a chance!
Why are we so judgmental about business in this country!
Why is it OK for Dreams, HMV, Comet, La Senza, DTZ, etc to suffer trading difficulties in this deep high street recession, but not OK for little Cafe Shore?
The whole point of trading through a 'limited' company has always been to encourage the creation of businesses and taking of risk. Without that there are no jobs, no tax revenues and nowhere to eat!
Sometimes in business people lose money and get hurt; sometimes they create wealth and prosperity.
That's capitalism and its what we do in this country.
Its sad that some want to sneer when things go wrong and be envious at success.
Yes - there are some rogues about, but not everyone in Poole is one!
They appear to have no difficulties in trading, as they continue to trade. Their difficulty is in paying folk for the goods they have had and the taxes that arise from that trading. Which incidentally does beg the question of why would they want to continue to run a business that supposedly made such a huge loss ?
Also this is not capitalism, it is fraud ie taking goods that you know you have not the means (or intent, I suspect) of paying for.
And the whole point of trading through limited liabilty is, to a certain extent, what you claim, but it is NOT the use that limited liabilty status to deliberately avoid your legal, if not moral, obligations.
So, whilst we cannot know for certain what was going on with this business we can know that those running, and associated, with it have had similar problems in the past.
As said elsewhere on this thread there is ample evidence, from company/director listing websites, which name the numerous companies that those named (and their associates) have had dissolved or liquidated.
So you would think that after so many failures and so much being owed to previous creditors they would have learned their lesson. Maybe they have, and like another bankrupt 'of this parish; they know what can be got away with ..... and regularly.
l'anglais
says...
7:54am Mon 18 Mar 13
Sorry but Capitalism creates the environment for this to happen.
In a mixed economy, controls are put in place where profit is not the sole objective, the national interest (society, creditors, staff) takes precedent.
Believe me people can get motivated about business without it having to be profit for profits sake.
Glashen
says...
10:07am Mon 18 Mar 13
Bob49 wrote:I agree with you Bob why would someone want to continue with such an unprofitable business, which strangely generated a lot of tax debt which you might think was usually to some extent related to income and profit.
lowemustgo wrote:Trading difficulties, eh ?
Give Cafe Shore a chance!
Why are we so judgmental about business in this country!
Why is it OK for Dreams, HMV, Comet, La Senza, DTZ, etc to suffer trading difficulties in this deep high street recession, but not OK for little Cafe Shore?
The whole point of trading through a 'limited' company has always been to encourage the creation of businesses and taking of risk. Without that there are no jobs, no tax revenues and nowhere to eat!
Sometimes in business people lose money and get hurt; sometimes they create wealth and prosperity.
That's capitalism and its what we do in this country.
Its sad that some want to sneer when things go wrong and be envious at success.
Yes - there are some rogues about, but not everyone in Poole is one!
They appear to have no difficulties in trading, as they continue to trade. Their difficulty is in paying folk for the goods they have had and the taxes that arise from that trading. Which incidentally does beg the question of why would they want to continue to run a business that supposedly made such a huge loss ?
Also this is not capitalism, it is fraud ie taking goods that you know you have not the means (or intent, I suspect) of paying for.
And the whole point of trading through limited liabilty is, to a certain extent, what you claim, but it is NOT the use that limited liabilty status to deliberately avoid your legal, if not moral, obligations.
So, whilst we cannot know for certain what was going on with this business we can know that those running, and associated, with it have had similar problems in the past.
As said elsewhere on this thread there is ample evidence, from company/director listing websites, which name the numerous companies that those named (and their associates) have had dissolved or liquidated.
So you would think that after so many failures and so much being owed to previous creditors they would have learned their lesson. Maybe they have, and like another bankrupt 'of this parish; they know what can be got away with ..... and regularly.
.
On the subject of creditors being careless with who they give credit to much of this debt was tax, HMRC cannot exactly refuse credit can they, I suspect many firms are careful but blaming the others is a bit akin to blaming the victim of mugging. We keep hearing that there will be a clamp down on rogue directors, I hope that is true because that would do a lot to dispel the idea that some people are just getting away with it.
Arjay
says...
11:45am Mon 18 Mar 13
"On the subject of creditors being careless with who they give credit to much of this debt was tax, HMRC cannot exactly refuse credit can they"
No of course not. But the HMRC debt is just over half the total.
£185,000 is due to other creditors.
Some of the earlier posts in this thread detailed some of the director's other business accounts. Even to an outsider, it does not make pretty reading. I am slightly bemused that they were able to obtain so much credit.....
Bob49
says...
2:28pm Mon 18 Mar 13
I'm not.
During the 1960's the was something known as 'long fraud' where a company would be set up with the intention of defrauding suppliers. It would buy goods paid for in advance then on delivery, and slowly build up the orders. Their credit rating would go up, the suppliers would view them as a good customer, as well as a good risk and 30 day credit would be extended. This would again be built up until the plug would be pulled ie company goes into liquidation.
Suppliers can not always be sure who is a director who has genuinely been the victim of unfavourable circumstances and those who are deliberaely conspiring to defraud them. And suppliers will be keen to do business so may take the view that other companies are as honest as they are - more so if that company has been trading for somewhile and they look to be a viable business.
If there is no indication of imminent failure then would every supplier continuously demand payment in advance or on delivery ? Especially when it is the utilities ie gas, water, sewerage, electricity, phone, rates etc
Whilst we can not know what happened in this particular case, it does show what can happen..
mcadder
says...
2:43pm Mon 18 Mar 13
glendower2909
says...
9:12pm Mon 18 Mar 13
http://www.lawteache
r.net/free-law-disse
rtations/principles-
of-liability-and-per
sonality.php
The above is a long lesson in the veil and its removal but an interstng read. If required search this page for "Phoenix Companies" and you will get to the interesting bit..
Come on HMRC hold these crooks to acct.....
glendower2909
says...
9:13pm Mon 18 Mar 13
MngsMnr
says...
6:27pm Tue 19 Mar 13
drmiss79 wrote:Coast Seafood formed Coast Seafood (Retail) Ltd in May 2012. So yes, they could be about to go bust and carry on trading under the new company.
The accounts for Lucy Enterprises are boring but Coast Seafood are far more interesting!
As at 30 April 2012 (last filed accounts) assets of £346k, and liabilities of £1.224m! So the company has a deficit of £878k, meaning the directors are trading whilst insolvent (a criminal offence?) and have been for a while.
Once again B Brafman is a director and shareholder. No doubt this will be the next company to fail and go bust!!!
Coast Seafood use a factoring company - often a sign of struggling company.
They could be in financial difficulties because so many pubs/hotels are going out of business and are often bad payers anyway.
scrumpyjack
says...
6:55pm Wed 20 Mar 13
B.F.G wrote:Of course they are....
l'anglais wrote:At least get your facts right, Ben is Julia's son.
Why did the previous director, Julia Brafman resign in January 2013?
On the same day her husband was appointer director.
Her Husband being Benjamin Brafman, who happens to be director of food establishments in the area;
Deli (Bournemouth) Limited
Coast Seafood Limited
Lucy Enterprises Limited.
Did I here Geoffrey BOYCOTT lives nearby?
There's nothing I hate more than somebody who thinks they know more than they really do.
Most of the comments section on this 'story' are from jealous, spiteful and bitter no marks.
portia6
says...
11:40pm Wed 20 Mar 13
sneering!
Talkingheadera
says...
7:54am Thu 21 Mar 13
HOIYMOIY
says...
2:06pm Thu 21 Mar 13
portia6 wrote:LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
Yankee1 wrote: Even the newly rich and popstar/football stars won't support this place. West Palm Beach is nicer...for less. And much bigger stars there. And better weather. What IS the allure of Sandbanks?Beach huts?
praelis
says...
4:51pm Thu 21 Mar 13
Kirk90
says...
9:12pm Fri 22 Mar 13
There are many great, quiet and more importantly discreet places to dine and be seen in the area. Sad that Cafe Shore gets seen as the trophy restaurant of Sandbanks.
Dibbles2 says...
12:33pm Fri 15 Mar 13