I'm sorry: Councillor apologises for Facebook post saying Costa staff "needed a good beating" (From Thisisdorset)
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I'm sorry: Councillor apologises for Facebook post saying Costa staff "needed a good beating"
11:30am Friday 8th March 2013 in Latest
By Rachel Stretton
COUNCILLOR Peter Chapman has apologised ‘sincerely and unreservedly’ for remarks made about female coffee shop staff on a social networking site.
The Weymouth and Portland Borough Councillor sparked outrage amongst women’s groups, business owners and fellow councillors when he posted on his private Facebook profile that the ‘bone idle bitches’ at Costa Dorchester ‘needed a good beating’.
Coun Chapman, who is the borough council’s spokesperson for finance and assets, sent a letter to the Echo via email in which he apologises to the staff for ‘the comment, the intemperate language used and any offence or distress caused’.
But he added: “My comment was never intended for an audience beyond those who know me well enough to take the comment...with the humour that was intended.”
Coun Chapman concludes that copies of the webpage were passed to the Echo ‘for some political purpose’.
Toni McKee, of women’s group Women’s Action Network Dorset (WAND), said she was glad Coun Chapman had ‘seen the error of his ways’.
She added: “It is good to hear that he’s apologised but I don’t know if it is enough to make up for what he said.
“People need to realise that throwaway comments on sites like Facebook are not private, and in any case, as a councillor I should think his constituents would be interested to know what he thinks.
“It is not acceptable to joke about violence against women. It shows that we still have this underlying culture in our society.”
Coun Chapman previously said the comments were made ‘in jest’ and his Facebook profile was taken down after he was contacted by the Echo.
President of the Dorchester Chamber of Commerce Alison Moore said she was ‘very pleased’ to hear about the apology.
She added: “Hopefully this will make us all a bit more mindful of the things we say, or write, on the spur of them moment.
“Perhaps the councillor will learn from this and be able to be even more in touch with the people who voted for him, so that something good can come out of this awful business.”
Weymouth and Portland Borough Councillor Kate Wheller said: “I was very surprised to hear about the comments because I know Peter Chapman takes the issue of violence against women as seriously as I do and it’s clearly not a subject for light-hearted jokes.
“I hope that, if nothing else, this will highlight how important it is to treat people with the sort of respect you would want to be given yourself.”
A spokesperson for Costa Coffee said: “Our baristas work really hard to ensure our customers have an enjoyable experience and we’re sorry to learn that Councillor Peter Chapman did not enjoy his visit to our Costa store in Dorchester.
“However we do not condone any of Coun Chapman’s comments.”
The letter sent to the Echo by Coun Chapman reads as follows:
“Dear Sirs,
“I write with regard to your article of March 6 concerning my comment on Facebook.
“Firstly I offer my sincere and unreserved apologies to the staff at Costa Dorchester for the comment, the intemperate language used and any offence or distress caused.
“My comments were not in any way indicative of the normal standard of service that I have received at that establishment, which is why I have been a customer for several years.
“The staff there have always been extremely pleasant.
“Secondly, I wish to re-iterate that my Facebook account was always set to private and friends only access.
“My comment was never intended for an audience beyond those who know me well enough to take the comment in the context that was intended and with the humour that was intended.
“I can only conclude that the comment I made reached the Echo for some political purpose.
“Yours sincerely, Peter Chapman.”
COMMENTS
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Comments(89)
mr commonsense
says...
1:54pm Thu 7 Mar 13
This raises a serious point about the way we live to-day. It has become so easy to write and say things about people and organisations without giving serious thought as to the likely consequences should it become public.
People in any form of public life as well as businesses need to very carefully when making comments as so often that can come back and kick you in the teeth,
This Cllr has demonstrated that he has no idea of how damaging his remarks have been and to say now he didn't mean to say them beggars belief, because he did say them. Please resign and do the honourable thing, then we will think much better of you.
JONBOY47
says...
2:19pm Thu 7 Mar 13
DucksQuack
says...
2:25pm Thu 7 Mar 13
Then resign.
scouer
says...
2:35pm Thu 7 Mar 13
leo210856
says...
2:38pm Thu 7 Mar 13
" I wish to re-iterate that my Facebook account was always set to private and friends only access."
“My comment was never intended for an audience beyond those who know me well enough to take the comment in the context that was intended and with the humour that was intended.
“I can only conclude that the comment I made reached the Echo for some political purpose.
So Councillor Chapman someone you knows you well enough to take the comment in the context that it was intended passed the comments on to the Echo.
What do they say about keeping you friends close but your enemies closer?
Bob Goulding
says...
2:55pm Thu 7 Mar 13
I for one am prepared to accept that they were made in jest and, how ever ill-advised and tasteless, were intended to be shared only with 'friends'.
As it is it is clear that someone has chosen to take Cllr Chapman's remarks out of this context and make them public without first challenging him directly and giving him the opportunity to explain his remarks and/or withdraw them and make a direct apology.
There is no doubt in my mind that the publication of Cllr Chapman's Facebook post was opportunist and politically motivated and has nothing to do with the issues involved.
shy talk
says...
2:56pm Thu 7 Mar 13
custos
says...
3:23pm Thu 7 Mar 13
Donkey Oatty
says...
3:26pm Thu 7 Mar 13
custos wrote:And I believe that you haven't got your network settings correct...
If Councillor Chapman really believes that he can post 'privately' on Facebook or any other social media website I would question his suitability to hold a responsible position on the Council.
custos
says...
3:44pm Thu 7 Mar 13
Donkey Oatty wrote:I am not sure what you mean by 'settings' but there is only one simple rule that anybody, (especially those in public office) should follow - never publish anything (text or picture) on a social media website that you would not want to see on the front page of a newspaper!
custos wrote:And I believe that you haven't got your network settings correct...
If Councillor Chapman really believes that he can post 'privately' on Facebook or any other social media website I would question his suitability to hold a responsible position on the Council.
portlandresident
says...
4:00pm Thu 7 Mar 13
Wellbalanced
says...
4:04pm Thu 7 Mar 13
mr commonsense wrote:Well said.
His apology is interesting and one has to ask the question would he have done it if his comments had not been published. This raises a serious point about the way we live to-day. It has become so easy to write and say things about people and organisations without giving serious thought as to the likely consequences should it become public. People in any form of public life as well as businesses need to very carefully when making comments as so often that can come back and kick you in the teeth, This Cllr has demonstrated that he has no idea of how damaging his remarks have been and to say now he didn't mean to say them beggars belief, because he did say them. Please resign and do the honourable thing, then we will think much better of you.
Jezebella
says...
4:48pm Thu 7 Mar 13
Portland Bill
says...
5:08pm Thu 7 Mar 13
satisfecho
says...
5:30pm Thu 7 Mar 13
Everyday there is numerous 'name calling' by many on this website, and many will be 'calling names' without even knowing the person.
Maybe it's time that those who posts these comments are also made accountable?
portlandresident
says...
5:34pm Thu 7 Mar 13
grhillidge@shaw.ca
says...
5:51pm Thu 7 Mar 13
Being responsible for words that fall out of our mouth is the only way to be.
Mrjon1
says...
6:20pm Thu 7 Mar 13
I'mavoter
says...
6:30pm Thu 7 Mar 13
Bob Goulding
says...
6:42pm Thu 7 Mar 13
I'mavoter wrote:..... and may I suggest hypocrisy.
The words mountain, and molehill come to mind.
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." is a quote that comes to mind.
wey2go
says...
6:55pm Thu 7 Mar 13
I'mavoter wrote:Spot on. Waste of time/print... nothing better to report on and source than facebook.
The words mountain, and molehill come to mind.
niceonecyril
says...
7:12pm Thu 7 Mar 13
JONBOY47 wrote:So you decry him for making a comment on what he obviously and rightly believed was a personal and private account on Facebook, but you think it is alright and acceptable to call him an idiot on what is obviously a PUBLIC page, talking about pot, kettle and black !
I think this goes to prove what poor quality most councillors are. Pity the idiot didn't have the guts or manners to go in to Costa and make his apology in person
niceonecyril
says...
7:12pm Thu 7 Mar 13
scouer wrote:Spot on 100%
freedom of speech he said it on his own facebook nothink 2 do with any 1 good on him
niceonecyril
says...
7:17pm Thu 7 Mar 13
custos wrote:Why, if you create a private page on Facebook, then that's exactly what it should be. I don't see the link between creating a private profile on Facebook and his ability to be a public servant.
If Councillor Chapman really believes that he can post 'privately' on Facebook or any other social media website I would question his suitability to hold a responsible position on the Council.
Zetters
says...
7:24pm Thu 7 Mar 13
JackJohnson
says...
9:21pm Thu 7 Mar 13
Without a doubt he should resign.
As for Costa staff, I've always found them to be polite and give very good service. Perhaps there was a queue he felt he shouldn't have to wait in.
jmc1
says...
9:39pm Thu 7 Mar 13
JackJohnson wrote:I agree,they seem to think they are better than us
This trusted pillar of the community does not appear to understand simple security and political subterfeuge, yet is allowed to deal with his constituents' personal and confidential information?
Without a doubt he should resign.
As for Costa staff, I've always found them to be polite and give very good service. Perhaps there was a queue he felt he shouldn't have to wait in.
Billy1mate
says...
9:45pm Thu 7 Mar 13
Some of the comments posted on here are quite derogatory, does that make us as bad as Councillor Chapman?
I also, do not think that his comments mean he is violent towards women.
nystrom86
says...
12:27am Fri 8 Mar 13
shaun blondz
says...
7:06am Fri 8 Mar 13
In the Blue corner representing all male kind Mr Pete Chapman and in the Red corner representing all female kind Mrs Christine James.
Now we do not want a good clean fight and from such experienced combatants we do not expect one
But it is a fight to the end last man standing gets the prize of the mayors chain and cycle for the next year
Now that would sell out I am sure.
Woodgate
says...
8:41am Fri 8 Mar 13
Get a grip
says...
9:02am Fri 8 Mar 13
stench
says...
9:25am Fri 8 Mar 13
Alkl i siad was he looks like a gump and how does he like his coffee, one spit or two?
Freedom of speech ;)
noodle06
says...
9:26am Fri 8 Mar 13
nystrom86 wrote:quite agree.....
Read a lot of comments about this over the last two days. As a constituent of this councillor I would like to say that he is one of the best I have ever known and that most of the people calling for his resignation wouldn't be half as capable at doing his job - I know that they will say they wouldn't want to do it anyway but if we all took that view we would just be led by a bunch of dictators. I am disappointed that the Echo printed this "story" knowing that it was intended only for his friends and not for general circulation. Personally if that's front page news then it doesn't say much for local reporting.
Andy Blackwood
says...
9:45am Fri 8 Mar 13
Woodgate wrote:Many of us (including Peter Chapman) do work for a living. We choose to put ourselves up for election because we want to play a part in making the Borough a better place rather than just sitting back and moaning about things. There will undoubtedly be a large number of people out there who could do a better job. Sadly they choose not to put themselves forward - maybe because they know that, whatever decisions they make, they will be criticised? For me there is a distinction between decision making and conduct. In this case I think Cllr Chapman's conduct was extremely ill-judged but actually has very little to do with his ability to act as a representative for Preston. From time to time I criticise his decision making because we do not agree about politics. There have been other councillors recently whose conduct and decision making have been questionable. However I don't think it's fair to tar everyone with the same brush. The majority of councillors conduct themselves with dignity and respect. It is always right and proper to question our decision making and we should be accountable to the public for the decisions we take. It's all too easy to lump everyone together and criticise "the council" whilst ignoring the fact that council decisions are rarely unanimous. We disagree amongst ourselves about lots of things but I am convinced that almost all councillors are trying to do what they perceive as "what's best for the town" rather than serving their own interests. But then I suppose I would say that wouldn't I?!
This whole story and the numerous comments it has attracted are all underpinned by a common and regularly re-ocurring theme (that the Echo delights in reminding us) - WPBC has long been cursed with a selection of self serving Councillors whose conduct and decision making has very little to do with whats best for the town. Sadly most people who could do an infinitely better job have to work for a living
Redmic99
says...
10:49am Fri 8 Mar 13
Bob Goulding
says...
11:09am Fri 8 Mar 13
Redmic99 wrote:Andy Blackwood is not a Tory councillor. Do you reject his opinion out of hand as well?
This Tory councillor is just so typical of his ilk and just one of the reasons that we suffer such poor local government.
Andy Blackwood
says...
1:21pm Fri 8 Mar 13
Bob Goulding wrote:I would. ;-)
Redmic99 wrote:Andy Blackwood is not a Tory councillor. Do you reject his opinion out of hand as well?
This Tory councillor is just so typical of his ilk and just one of the reasons that we suffer such poor local government.
stench
says...
1:51pm Fri 8 Mar 13
Andy Blackwood wrote:ha!
Bob Goulding wrote:I would. ;-)Redmic99 wrote: This Tory councillor is just so typical of his ilk and just one of the reasons that we suffer such poor local government.Andy Blackwood is not a Tory councillor. Do you reject his opinion out of hand as well?
cj07589
says...
2:30pm Fri 8 Mar 13
marabout
says...
2:52pm Fri 8 Mar 13
And Im sorry but apologising for advocating violence to women is just not acceptable.
I expect to see this mans resignation soon.
earlofplunket
says...
3:31pm Fri 8 Mar 13
marabout wrote:..and Christine James for actually committing the act I presume?
Im sorry but no amount of an apology can justify what this man wrote. Writing that "Bone idle **** need a good beating" is so very, very wrong.
And Im sorry but apologising for advocating violence to women is just not acceptable.
I expect to see this mans resignation soon.
echo-reader
says...
4:00pm Fri 8 Mar 13
he has only said what everone else is too scared to say
i bet they service will get better there now
cj07589
says...
4:05pm Fri 8 Mar 13
marabout wrote:Look up the meaning of jest please.
Im sorry but no amount of an apology can justify what this man wrote. Writing that "Bone idle **** need a good beating" is so very, very wrong.
And Im sorry but apologising for advocating violence to women is just not acceptable.
I expect to see this mans resignation soon.
Bob Goulding
says...
4:26pm Fri 8 Mar 13
marabout wrote:I'm sorry but making a throw-away remark in jest in what he thought was a private space could hardly be described as 'advocating violence to women'. That is a very different matter and, if it had been the case, I would have no hesitation in supporting your call for his resignation. However I'm afraid that, in this case, you are quite wrong and it does you no credit to make such unfounded accusations. In fact, I believe your comments are defamatory and could be considered actionable.
Im sorry but no amount of an apology can justify what this man wrote. Writing that "Bone idle **** need a good beating" is so very, very wrong.
And Im sorry but apologising for advocating violence to women is just not acceptable.
I expect to see this mans resignation soon.
Woodgate
says...
5:17pm Fri 8 Mar 13
Andy Blackwood wrote:Cllr Blackwood - I accept that there are some good Cllrs who work hard to genuinely try to make a postive difference to the Borough (you may very well be one of them) but im confident that many will agree with me that WPBC has had and continues to be blighted by far more than its share of self serving members and officers whose approach to those that they are supposed to serve is superior and downright dismissive and whose motives are driven more by self interest and status. Of course I could be wrong, but when you take all the regular adverse publicity surrounding this lot and add it to the accelerating decline in the area, arising from lack of leadership and wider, commercial and cultural ambition, somehow I dont think so.
Woodgate wrote:Many of us (including Peter Chapman) do work for a living. We choose to put ourselves up for election because we want to play a part in making the Borough a better place rather than just sitting back and moaning about things. There will undoubtedly be a large number of people out there who could do a better job. Sadly they choose not to put themselves forward - maybe because they know that, whatever decisions they make, they will be criticised? For me there is a distinction between decision making and conduct. In this case I think Cllr Chapman's conduct was extremely ill-judged but actually has very little to do with his ability to act as a representative for Preston. From time to time I criticise his decision making because we do not agree about politics. There have been other councillors recently whose conduct and decision making have been questionable. However I don't think it's fair to tar everyone with the same brush. The majority of councillors conduct themselves with dignity and respect. It is always right and proper to question our decision making and we should be accountable to the public for the decisions we take. It's all too easy to lump everyone together and criticise "the council" whilst ignoring the fact that council decisions are rarely unanimous. We disagree amongst ourselves about lots of things but I am convinced that almost all councillors are trying to do what they perceive as "what's best for the town" rather than serving their own interests. But then I suppose I would say that wouldn't I?!
This whole story and the numerous comments it has attracted are all underpinned by a common and regularly re-ocurring theme (that the Echo delights in reminding us) - WPBC has long been cursed with a selection of self serving Councillors whose conduct and decision making has very little to do with whats best for the town. Sadly most people who could do an infinitely better job have to work for a living
valhalla
says...
6:04pm Fri 8 Mar 13
Bob Goulding
says...
6:28pm Fri 8 Mar 13
Woodgate wrote:Yes, you are wrong. If you believe that agendas and decisions are based on self interest then please disclose your evidence. If you have none (which I am sure is the case) then this is nothing more that worthless and misleading propaganda.
Andy Blackwood wrote:Cllr Blackwood - I accept that there are some good Cllrs who work hard to genuinely try to make a postive difference to the Borough (you may very well be one of them) but im confident that many will agree with me that WPBC has had and continues to be blighted by far more than its share of self serving members and officers whose approach to those that they are supposed to serve is superior and downright dismissive and whose motives are driven more by self interest and status. Of course I could be wrong, but when you take all the regular adverse publicity surrounding this lot and add it to the accelerating decline in the area, arising from lack of leadership and wider, commercial and cultural ambition, somehow I dont think so.
Woodgate wrote:Many of us (including Peter Chapman) do work for a living. We choose to put ourselves up for election because we want to play a part in making the Borough a better place rather than just sitting back and moaning about things. There will undoubtedly be a large number of people out there who could do a better job. Sadly they choose not to put themselves forward - maybe because they know that, whatever decisions they make, they will be criticised? For me there is a distinction between decision making and conduct. In this case I think Cllr Chapman's conduct was extremely ill-judged but actually has very little to do with his ability to act as a representative for Preston. From time to time I criticise his decision making because we do not agree about politics. There have been other councillors recently whose conduct and decision making have been questionable. However I don't think it's fair to tar everyone with the same brush. The majority of councillors conduct themselves with dignity and respect. It is always right and proper to question our decision making and we should be accountable to the public for the decisions we take. It's all too easy to lump everyone together and criticise "the council" whilst ignoring the fact that council decisions are rarely unanimous. We disagree amongst ourselves about lots of things but I am convinced that almost all councillors are trying to do what they perceive as "what's best for the town" rather than serving their own interests. But then I suppose I would say that wouldn't I?!
This whole story and the numerous comments it has attracted are all underpinned by a common and regularly re-ocurring theme (that the Echo delights in reminding us) - WPBC has long been cursed with a selection of self serving Councillors whose conduct and decision making has very little to do with whats best for the town. Sadly most people who could do an infinitely better job have to work for a living
Bob Goulding
says...
6:50pm Fri 8 Mar 13
valhalla wrote:This man was elected because his views are representative of the electorate that chose to vote for him and I can see no reason to believe that anything has changed in this regard.
It's hard to say what I find the most disturbing. A elected representative of the borough and his attitude to the low paid, ie that they deserve punishment for not serving him to his liking (ARROGANCE OR WHAT) or his attitude to women (THE **** NEED BEATING). This man represents you and your views. I wouldnt let him in my house much less a council chamber. If the Conservative group don't do anything we can but assume that he represents their view.
As far as I can see he has not criticised low paid workers per se. If Costa's workers are low paid then, given the huge profits that they make, perhaps they should be examining their remuneration policy. There is a direct correlation between motivation and reward.
biggestoaf
says...
7:31pm Fri 8 Mar 13
Woodgate wrote:The biggest problem with "this lot" is that too many of them are Conservatives and Liberal Democrats. They're messing up the country and they're messing up the Borough.
Andy Blackwood wrote:Cllr Blackwood - I accept that there are some good Cllrs who work hard to genuinely try to make a postive difference to the Borough (you may very well be one of them) but im confident that many will agree with me that WPBC has had and continues to be blighted by far more than its share of self serving members and officers whose approach to those that they are supposed to serve is superior and downright dismissive and whose motives are driven more by self interest and status. Of course I could be wrong, but when you take all the regular adverse publicity surrounding this lot and add it to the accelerating decline in the area, arising from lack of leadership and wider, commercial and cultural ambition, somehow I dont think so.
Woodgate wrote:Many of us (including Peter Chapman) do work for a living. We choose to put ourselves up for election because we want to play a part in making the Borough a better place rather than just sitting back and moaning about things. There will undoubtedly be a large number of people out there who could do a better job. Sadly they choose not to put themselves forward - maybe because they know that, whatever decisions they make, they will be criticised? For me there is a distinction between decision making and conduct. In this case I think Cllr Chapman's conduct was extremely ill-judged but actually has very little to do with his ability to act as a representative for Preston. From time to time I criticise his decision making because we do not agree about politics. There have been other councillors recently whose conduct and decision making have been questionable. However I don't think it's fair to tar everyone with the same brush. The majority of councillors conduct themselves with dignity and respect. It is always right and proper to question our decision making and we should be accountable to the public for the decisions we take. It's all too easy to lump everyone together and criticise "the council" whilst ignoring the fact that council decisions are rarely unanimous. We disagree amongst ourselves about lots of things but I am convinced that almost all councillors are trying to do what they perceive as "what's best for the town" rather than serving their own interests. But then I suppose I would say that wouldn't I?!
This whole story and the numerous comments it has attracted are all underpinned by a common and regularly re-ocurring theme (that the Echo delights in reminding us) - WPBC has long been cursed with a selection of self serving Councillors whose conduct and decision making has very little to do with whats best for the town. Sadly most people who could do an infinitely better job have to work for a living
*sits back and waits for the anti-Labour backlash*
JamesYoung
says...
7:39pm Fri 8 Mar 13
biggestoaf wrote:The only reason you are having to deal with Libs and Cons is because of the bloody mess your precious Labour party made of the economy.
Woodgate wrote:The biggest problem with "this lot" is that too many of them are Conservatives and Liberal Democrats. They're messing up the country and they're messing up the Borough.
Andy Blackwood wrote:Cllr Blackwood - I accept that there are some good Cllrs who work hard to genuinely try to make a postive difference to the Borough (you may very well be one of them) but im confident that many will agree with me that WPBC has had and continues to be blighted by far more than its share of self serving members and officers whose approach to those that they are supposed to serve is superior and downright dismissive and whose motives are driven more by self interest and status. Of course I could be wrong, but when you take all the regular adverse publicity surrounding this lot and add it to the accelerating decline in the area, arising from lack of leadership and wider, commercial and cultural ambition, somehow I dont think so.
Woodgate wrote:Many of us (including Peter Chapman) do work for a living. We choose to put ourselves up for election because we want to play a part in making the Borough a better place rather than just sitting back and moaning about things. There will undoubtedly be a large number of people out there who could do a better job. Sadly they choose not to put themselves forward - maybe because they know that, whatever decisions they make, they will be criticised? For me there is a distinction between decision making and conduct. In this case I think Cllr Chapman's conduct was extremely ill-judged but actually has very little to do with his ability to act as a representative for Preston. From time to time I criticise his decision making because we do not agree about politics. There have been other councillors recently whose conduct and decision making have been questionable. However I don't think it's fair to tar everyone with the same brush. The majority of councillors conduct themselves with dignity and respect. It is always right and proper to question our decision making and we should be accountable to the public for the decisions we take. It's all too easy to lump everyone together and criticise "the council" whilst ignoring the fact that council decisions are rarely unanimous. We disagree amongst ourselves about lots of things but I am convinced that almost all councillors are trying to do what they perceive as "what's best for the town" rather than serving their own interests. But then I suppose I would say that wouldn't I?!
This whole story and the numerous comments it has attracted are all underpinned by a common and regularly re-ocurring theme (that the Echo delights in reminding us) - WPBC has long been cursed with a selection of self serving Councillors whose conduct and decision making has very little to do with whats best for the town. Sadly most people who could do an infinitely better job have to work for a living
*sits back and waits for the anti-Labour backlash*
Will that do?
biggestoaf
says...
8:26pm Fri 8 Mar 13
cj07589
says...
10:09pm Fri 8 Mar 13
biggestoaf wrote:That's the lamest excuse and doesn't wash with the savvy ...any muppet with half a brain cell of common sense knows you repair the roof when the sun shines. Liebour maxed the credit cards out plus some, flogged the nations gold at bottom dollar open the immrigration flood gates devaluing the labour market rate not forgetting giving away our rebate to European fascists. Bloody traitors the lot of em, I'm still waiting for tony Blair to be taken to The Hague for crimes against the UK and humanity.
Fairly half-hearted attempt James. You know I'm going to come back with "and were they to blame for the collapse in the economies of all the other countries too?"
biggestoaf
says...
10:48pm Fri 8 Mar 13
JamesYoung
says...
9:21am Sat 9 Mar 13
biggestoaf wrote:Half hearted, my friend, because if you've survived the last four years and have still not figured out that most of our issues are home grown, i'm not going to be able to convince you otherwise.
Fairly half-hearted attempt James. You know I'm going to come back with "and were they to blame for the collapse in the economies of all the other countries too?"
Not all countries saw household debt triple in just 5 years.
When you understand the ramifications, and causes, of that, then we can talk about PFI, tax policy, debt ratios, etc.
JamesYoung
says...
9:22am Sat 9 Mar 13
JamesYoung wrote:PS: I think you can make a credible argument that Blair, Bush and other western leaders were indeed responsible. Their job is to regulate. They didn't.
biggestoaf wrote:Half hearted, my friend, because if you've survived the last four years and have still not figured out that most of our issues are home grown, i'm not going to be able to convince you otherwise.
Fairly half-hearted attempt James. You know I'm going to come back with "and were they to blame for the collapse in the economies of all the other countries too?"
Not all countries saw household debt triple in just 5 years.
When you understand the ramifications, and causes, of that, then we can talk about PFI, tax policy, debt ratios, etc.
JamesYoung
says...
9:23am Sat 9 Mar 13
biggestoaf wrote:You'll find no argument from me there. Local politics is a disaster.
You see James - that's more like it! What about all the ****-ups at WPBC cj. Even you surely can't blame Labour for those?
biggestoaf
says...
9:50am Sat 9 Mar 13
JamesYoung
says...
12:06pm Sat 9 Mar 13
biggestoaf wrote:That's because they have no power. Meanwhile, over in Southampton.....
But have you noticed the disastrous local politicians are mostly Tories with one or two Lib Dems thrown in? Can't remember any problems caused by our Labour councillors.
http://www.dailyecho
.co.uk/news/district
/southampton/1022626
8.Worst_cuts_ever_vo
ted_through_by_counc
il/
JamesYoung
says...
12:14pm Sat 9 Mar 13
In 1933 the first Roosevelt administration found that 50% of American banks had vanished in the depression. Confidence
in the banking system had to be re-established, and this was done by the passing of the Glass-Seagall Act, which
separated Main Street banking from investment banking. A depositor in Milwaukee could have confidence that his money
would not go for adventures on Wall St. Confidence was gradually restored albeit slowly. The Glass-Seagall Act remained law until it was repealed by Clinton in 2000. Why was it repealed? Because in 1997
Gordon Brown took UK bank regulation away from the Bank of England and split it between the Treasury, the Bank of
England and the FSA. None of them knew exactly what their remit was but, crucially, they didn't know the remit of the
others, resulting in Northern Rock and worse. No-one in Whitehall was monitoring Northern Rock lending long - 25 years
- and borrowing short - three and six months - on the money markets. Darling admitted that the first he knew of the run
on Northern Rock was when he read about it in the Financial Times while on holiday. But no-one in Whitehall noticed and told him! However, the light-touch, non-existent bank regulation that Brown had made available in the UK was noticed by
American banks and so many of them switched their centres of operations to London that Clinton was forced to repeal
the Glass-Seagall Act in order to prevent Wall St. becoming a ghost town for banking. Clinton was succeeded by GW Bush,
friend of Wall St, the genie was out of the bottle, and the rest is history. Gordon Brown caused the American credit
crunch. No wonder Obama didn't want to talk to him.
biggestoaf
says...
1:02pm Sat 9 Mar 13
can/Banker wrote that? It's an interesting view but an obscured one. Whilst Gordon Brown changed the way the banks were regulated, this account fails to mention something of which you, James, will certainly be aware. At the time that this was happening, were David Cameron and George Osborne saying "No, don't lighten the regulation of the banks Gordon. You know what a dodgy lot the bankers are. They're bound to play fast and loose with everyone's money and we'll end up in a right mess."? Were they warning of the dangers of "light touch non-existent bank regulation."? Strangely no. They were criticising the Labour government for over-regulating the banks. They wanted the banks to have even more freedom to play fast and loose with our money. Criticise Gordon Brown by all means. Perhaps he should have grasped the chance to nationalise the banks. But never forget our present troubles would have been even worse if the Tories had been in power.
siratb
says...
2:28pm Sat 9 Mar 13
.
Who cares, this is a non story, a flippant remark, said supposedly in private by a man who if you have ever met him, you would know is exceedingly nice and very helpful. Cllr Chapman went out of his way to help us with the council when we needed help, and I for one don't care about jokes made by him in private.
.
Cllr Dunster has a very valid point when talking about foreign workers and their work ethics if you ask me.
woodsedge
says...
6:13pm Sat 9 Mar 13
biggestoaf wrote:Quite agree, google searches will uncover all sorts of one sided dribble. What everyone forgets is that it wasn't teachers, fire fighters and council workers that crashed the economy whilst taking billions in bailouts and bonuses, it was the bankers. You know, the ones that Cameron continues to protect and who he believes it is unfair to cap their bonus at 2 years salary.
Hmm. And which Conservative/Republi
can/Banker wrote that? It's an interesting view but an obscured one. Whilst Gordon Brown changed the way the banks were regulated, this account fails to mention something of which you, James, will certainly be aware. At the time that this was happening, were David Cameron and George Osborne saying "No, don't lighten the regulation of the banks Gordon. You know what a dodgy lot the bankers are. They're bound to play fast and loose with everyone's money and we'll end up in a right mess."? Were they warning of the dangers of "light touch non-existent bank regulation."? Strangely no. They were criticising the Labour government for over-regulating the banks. They wanted the banks to have even more freedom to play fast and loose with our money. Criticise Gordon Brown by all means. Perhaps he should have grasped the chance to nationalise the banks. But never forget our present troubles would have been even worse if the Tories had been in power.
JamesYoung
says...
7:29pm Sat 9 Mar 13
biggestoaf wrote:Isn't it funny that whenever anybody posts anything factual (because it is what happened) it gets dismissed as right wing drivel.
Hmm. And which Conservative/Republi
can/Banker wrote that? It's an interesting view but an obscured one. Whilst Gordon Brown changed the way the banks were regulated, this account fails to mention something of which you, James, will certainly be aware. At the time that this was happening, were David Cameron and George Osborne saying "No, don't lighten the regulation of the banks Gordon. You know what a dodgy lot the bankers are. They're bound to play fast and loose with everyone's money and we'll end up in a right mess."? Were they warning of the dangers of "light touch non-existent bank regulation."? Strangely no. They were criticising the Labour government for over-regulating the banks. They wanted the banks to have even more freedom to play fast and loose with our money. Criticise Gordon Brown by all means. Perhaps he should have grasped the chance to nationalise the banks. But never forget our present troubles would have been even worse if the Tories had been in power.
Not only that, but Brown's own actions are claimed to be somebody else's fault. He was in charge, fella, he's got to take the blame.
Our present troubles would not have been worse had the Tories been in power at all. The Tories left the incoming Labour government with a budget surplus.
Had they continued to do that, we would have been far less exposed than we were by a chancellor who spent more than he earned.
JamesYoung
says...
7:33pm Sat 9 Mar 13
woodsedge wrote:I actually agree with this. But that doesn't mean that the teachers, fire fighters and council staff can now escape unscathed - again, this isnt ideology, its just that there isn't the money anymore.
biggestoaf wrote:Quite agree, google searches will uncover all sorts of one sided dribble. What everyone forgets is that it wasn't teachers, fire fighters and council workers that crashed the economy whilst taking billions in bailouts and bonuses, it was the bankers. You know, the ones that Cameron continues to protect and who he believes it is unfair to cap their bonus at 2 years salary.
Hmm. And which Conservative/Republi
can/Banker wrote that? It's an interesting view but an obscured one. Whilst Gordon Brown changed the way the banks were regulated, this account fails to mention something of which you, James, will certainly be aware. At the time that this was happening, were David Cameron and George Osborne saying "No, don't lighten the regulation of the banks Gordon. You know what a dodgy lot the bankers are. They're bound to play fast and loose with everyone's money and we'll end up in a right mess."? Were they warning of the dangers of "light touch non-existent bank regulation."? Strangely no. They were criticising the Labour government for over-regulating the banks. They wanted the banks to have even more freedom to play fast and loose with our money. Criticise Gordon Brown by all means. Perhaps he should have grasped the chance to nationalise the banks. But never forget our present troubles would have been even worse if the Tories had been in power.
To be honest Cameron is pretty hamstrung. In the same way as Clinton was forced to act in the late 1990s because of Brown, Cameron cannot now take effective action because banks will go offshore (HSBC has already moved its corporate HQ). Don't forget that the EU is already trying to introduce legislation that will destroy London as a centre for financial services.
If you said we'd be better off without them, i'd absolutely agree - but with the proviso that before we can kick them all out, we need to have restored our manufacturing and agriculture industries. Which means labour costs have to come down....
marabout
says...
10:04pm Sat 9 Mar 13
Bob Goulding wrote:Making a throw away jest in a private space is most certainly advocating violence against women. Even if this man had not written these comments the very fact that he thought that those "idle **** need a good beating" suggests that this chap is a long way from the sort of man who should be representing us.
marabout wrote:I'm sorry but making a throw-away remark in jest in what he thought was a private space could hardly be described as 'advocating violence to women'. That is a very different matter and, if it had been the case, I would have no hesitation in supporting your call for his resignation. However I'm afraid that, in this case, you are quite wrong and it does you no credit to make such unfounded accusations. In fact, I believe your comments are defamatory and could be considered actionable.
Im sorry but no amount of an apology can justify what this man wrote. Writing that "Bone idle **** need a good beating" is so very, very wrong.
And Im sorry but apologising for advocating violence to women is just not acceptable.
I expect to see this mans resignation soon.
cj07589
says...
9:42am Sun 10 Mar 13
marabout wrote:What a load of tosh, just because you say something the reality is it doesn't mean you believe it or would Carry it out. How fickle are you, you need to take a long hard look at yourself and stop trivialising matters by fabricating fiascos that in reality mean nothing.
Bob Goulding wrote:Making a throw away jest in a private space is most certainly advocating violence against women. Even if this man had not written these comments the very fact that he thought that those "idle **** need a good beating" suggests that this chap is a long way from the sort of man who should be representing us.
marabout wrote:I'm sorry but making a throw-away remark in jest in what he thought was a private space could hardly be described as 'advocating violence to women'. That is a very different matter and, if it had been the case, I would have no hesitation in supporting your call for his resignation. However I'm afraid that, in this case, you are quite wrong and it does you no credit to make such unfounded accusations. In fact, I believe your comments are defamatory and could be considered actionable.
Im sorry but no amount of an apology can justify what this man wrote. Writing that "Bone idle **** need a good beating" is so very, very wrong.
And Im sorry but apologising for advocating violence to women is just not acceptable.
I expect to see this mans resignation soon.
By your very own statement and logic, since all politicians makes statements of intent but do not implement them does this mean they are unsuitable to represent the electorate now? The most worrying thing is why would any sane person want to enter politics with so many virtuous spiteful liberal vultures around who have nothing better to do than pass sentence from their virtuous ivory tower.
marabout
says...
12:58pm Sun 10 Mar 13
If the Prime Minister had put of his facebook page that "These idle **** need a good beating" would we accept that as a joke?
If a central government politician had put on their facebook page that "these idle **** need a good beating" would we consider that as a joke?
Then why is it ok for a local politician to put on his facebook page that "these idle **** need a good beating"
Councillor Ray Nowak is absolutely correct when he writes to this paper and states that
"Suggesting its OK to beat women is so wrong."
I have to agree with Mr Nowak.
Thankfully, Mr Chapman has apologised and has deleted his facebook page but as a result of this sordid episode Im afraid that my support for the Conservative party is waning.
Final comment.
radiator
says...
2:38pm Sun 10 Mar 13
Tike
says...
5:53pm Sun 10 Mar 13
marabout wrote:Problem is, the MP did NOT call a Police Officer a pleb, the police lied, another off-duty police then provided a false letter/statement and the newspapers had the 'story' provided by the police and published it. It took months for the truth to come out and a man had his career and reputation ruined. Cllr Chapman was wrong to write that Costa staff needed 'a beating' and perhaps he will now realise that not all his 'friends' can be trusted.
Recently a member of the Government called a police Officer a Pleb. As a result, he lost his job.
If the Prime Minister had put of his facebook page that "These idle **** need a good beating" would we accept that as a joke?
If a central government politician had put on their facebook page that "these idle **** need a good beating" would we consider that as a joke?
Then why is it ok for a local politician to put on his facebook page that "these idle **** need a good beating"
Councillor Ray Nowak is absolutely correct when he writes to this paper and states that
"Suggesting its OK to beat women is so wrong."
I have to agree with Mr Nowak.
Thankfully, Mr Chapman has apologised and has deleted his facebook page but as a result of this sordid episode Im afraid that my support for the Conservative party is waning.
Final comment.
cj07589
says...
8:46pm Sun 10 Mar 13
marabout wrote:Grow up
Recently a member of the Government called a police Officer a Pleb. As a result, he lost his job.
If the Prime Minister had put of his facebook page that "These idle **** need a good beating" would we accept that as a joke?
If a central government politician had put on their facebook page that "these idle **** need a good beating" would we consider that as a joke?
Then why is it ok for a local politician to put on his facebook page that "these idle **** need a good beating"
Councillor Ray Nowak is absolutely correct when he writes to this paper and states that
"Suggesting its OK to beat women is so wrong."
I have to agree with Mr Nowak.
Thankfully, Mr Chapman has apologised and has deleted his facebook page but as a result of this sordid episode Im afraid that my support for the Conservative party is waning.
Final comment.
Bob Goulding
says...
10:40am Mon 11 Mar 13
marabout wrote:What a ridiculous thing to say. If you were to reject everyone who had had what you consider to be inappropriate thoughts IN JEST we would have no-one left to represent us at all.
Bob Goulding wrote:Making a throw away jest in a private space is most certainly advocating violence against women. Even if this man had not written these comments the very fact that he thought that those "idle **** need a good beating" suggests that this chap is a long way from the sort of man who should be representing us.
marabout wrote:I'm sorry but making a throw-away remark in jest in what he thought was a private space could hardly be described as 'advocating violence to women'. That is a very different matter and, if it had been the case, I would have no hesitation in supporting your call for his resignation. However I'm afraid that, in this case, you are quite wrong and it does you no credit to make such unfounded accusations. In fact, I believe your comments are defamatory and could be considered actionable.
Im sorry but no amount of an apology can justify what this man wrote. Writing that "Bone idle **** need a good beating" is so very, very wrong.
And Im sorry but apologising for advocating violence to women is just not acceptable.
I expect to see this mans resignation soon.
monkeydog
says...
2:45pm Mon 11 Mar 13
Bob Goulding
says...
2:58pm Mon 11 Mar 13
monkeydog wrote:I think (if I am allowed to) that it's those who believe Cllr Chapman's private comments were anything more that a bad joke that need counselling. Not sure why 1954 should be significant in this context but I do know that the concept of Thought Police passed us by in 1984.
Anyone who thinks this man's comments were a 'jest' needs counselling. It might still be 1954 in parts of Weymouth but the rest of the country has moved on.
JamesYoung
says...
4:09pm Mon 11 Mar 13
Bob Goulding wrote:I'm not so sure they did, you know.
monkeydog wrote:I think (if I am allowed to) that it's those who believe Cllr Chapman's private comments were anything more that a bad joke that need counselling. Not sure why 1954 should be significant in this context but I do know that the concept of Thought Police passed us by in 1984.
Anyone who thinks this man's comments were a 'jest' needs counselling. It might still be 1954 in parts of Weymouth but the rest of the country has moved on.
Bob Goulding
says...
4:24pm Mon 11 Mar 13
JamesYoung wrote:You may be right. Perhaps thought control still exists as an objective of today's English Socialism.
Bob Goulding wrote:I'm not so sure they did, you know.
monkeydog wrote:I think (if I am allowed to) that it's those who believe Cllr Chapman's private comments were anything more that a bad joke that need counselling. Not sure why 1954 should be significant in this context but I do know that the concept of Thought Police passed us by in 1984.
Anyone who thinks this man's comments were a 'jest' needs counselling. It might still be 1954 in parts of Weymouth but the rest of the country has moved on.
cj07589
says...
4:54pm Mon 11 Mar 13
Bob Goulding wrote:Which goes along way to explaining why complete morons keep on being voted in.
JamesYoung wrote:You may be right. Perhaps thought control still exists as an objective of today's English Socialism.
Bob Goulding wrote:I'm not so sure they did, you know.
monkeydog wrote:I think (if I am allowed to) that it's those who believe Cllr Chapman's private comments were anything more that a bad joke that need counselling. Not sure why 1954 should be significant in this context but I do know that the concept of Thought Police passed us by in 1984.
Anyone who thinks this man's comments were a 'jest' needs counselling. It might still be 1954 in parts of Weymouth but the rest of the country has moved on.
It ain't rocket if you feel strongly about a comment said privately in jest then don't vote for them.
Parkstreetshufle
says...
5:02pm Mon 11 Mar 13
Everyone knows I'm kidding right? right?
Bob Goulding
says...
6:25pm Mon 11 Mar 13
cj07589 wrote:Whilst I don't understand your first comment I do agree with your second. I would add, however, that if comments made in private (in jest or otherwise) remained private then it would not be an issue for the electorate. I think the ethics of those that were party to the disclosure of Cllr Chapman's private comments should called into question rather than those of Cllr Chapman himself. There is no doubt that their motives and the word honorable is not included.
Bob Goulding wrote:Which goes along way to explaining why complete morons keep on being voted in.
JamesYoung wrote:You may be right. Perhaps thought control still exists as an objective of today's English Socialism.
Bob Goulding wrote:I'm not so sure they did, you know.
monkeydog wrote:I think (if I am allowed to) that it's those who believe Cllr Chapman's private comments were anything more that a bad joke that need counselling. Not sure why 1954 should be significant in this context but I do know that the concept of Thought Police passed us by in 1984.
Anyone who thinks this man's comments were a 'jest' needs counselling. It might still be 1954 in parts of Weymouth but the rest of the country has moved on.
It ain't rocket if you feel strongly about a comment said privately in jest then don't vote for them.
Bob Goulding
says...
6:27pm Mon 11 Mar 13
Bob Goulding wrote:...and neither is 'honourable'. Please update you website software Echo.
cj07589 wrote:Whilst I don't understand your first comment I do agree with your second. I would add, however, that if comments made in private (in jest or otherwise) remained private then it would not be an issue for the electorate. I think the ethics of those that were party to the disclosure of Cllr Chapman's private comments should called into question rather than those of Cllr Chapman himself. There is no doubt that their motives and the word honorable is not included.
Bob Goulding wrote:Which goes along way to explaining why complete morons keep on being voted in.
JamesYoung wrote:You may be right. Perhaps thought control still exists as an objective of today's English Socialism.
Bob Goulding wrote:I'm not so sure they did, you know.
monkeydog wrote:I think (if I am allowed to) that it's those who believe Cllr Chapman's private comments were anything more that a bad joke that need counselling. Not sure why 1954 should be significant in this context but I do know that the concept of Thought Police passed us by in 1984.
Anyone who thinks this man's comments were a 'jest' needs counselling. It might still be 1954 in parts of Weymouth but the rest of the country has moved on.
It ain't rocket if you feel strongly about a comment said privately in jest then don't vote for them.
Bob Goulding
says...
6:32pm Mon 11 Mar 13
Bob Goulding wrote:Oh dear my typing is getting worse by the minute.... should have read;
Bob Goulding wrote:...and neither is 'honourable'. Please update you website software Echo.
cj07589 wrote:Whilst I don't understand your first comment I do agree with your second. I would add, however, that if comments made in private (in jest or otherwise) remained private then it would not be an issue for the electorate. I think the ethics of those that were party to the disclosure of Cllr Chapman's private comments should called into question rather than those of Cllr Chapman himself. There is no doubt that their motives and the word honorable is not included.
Bob Goulding wrote:Which goes along way to explaining why complete morons keep on being voted in.
JamesYoung wrote:You may be right. Perhaps thought control still exists as an objective of today's English Socialism.
Bob Goulding wrote:I'm not so sure they did, you know.
monkeydog wrote:I think (if I am allowed to) that it's those who believe Cllr Chapman's private comments were anything more that a bad joke that need counselling. Not sure why 1954 should be significant in this context but I do know that the concept of Thought Police passed us by in 1984.
Anyone who thinks this man's comments were a 'jest' needs counselling. It might still be 1954 in parts of Weymouth but the rest of the country has moved on.
It ain't rocket if you feel strongly about a comment said privately in jest then don't vote for them.
There is no doubt about their motives and the word honourable is not included.
cj07589
says...
7:59pm Mon 11 Mar 13
Bob Goulding wrote:Hi Woodsedge, we agree on some aspects and not on some others i'm afraid alas the joys of freedom of expression and in my opinion the best point of democracy. Absolutely agreed on the honourable point, exclusive of the army and life safety services it has been in short supply in the public sector in particular. Not forgetting the recently announced strikes to hold the us (aka public) to random again........
cj07589 wrote:Whilst I don't understand your first comment I do agree with your second. I would add, however, that if comments made in private (in jest or otherwise) remained private then it would not be an issue for the electorate. I think the ethics of those that were party to the disclosure of Cllr Chapman's private comments should called into question rather than those of Cllr Chapman himself. There is no doubt that their motives and the word honorable is not included.
Bob Goulding wrote:Which goes along way to explaining why complete morons keep on being voted in.
JamesYoung wrote:You may be right. Perhaps thought control still exists as an objective of today's English Socialism.
Bob Goulding wrote:I'm not so sure they did, you know.
monkeydog wrote:I think (if I am allowed to) that it's those who believe Cllr Chapman's private comments were anything more that a bad joke that need counselling. Not sure why 1954 should be significant in this context but I do know that the concept of Thought Police passed us by in 1984.
Anyone who thinks this man's comments were a 'jest' needs counselling. It might still be 1954 in parts of Weymouth but the rest of the country has moved on.
It ain't rocket if you feel strongly about a comment said privately in jest then don't vote for them.
Crimbo
says...
11:37pm Mon 11 Mar 13
Come on people - stop being so anal! Costa gives crap service in an environment where the music is turned up to a level just below the pain threshold to drown out the noise of the screaming kids abandoned by the "mothers mafia" blocking the bottom third of the store. A councillor happened to visit and endured a "coffee from hell" experience after spending the usual ten minutes queuing whilst staff moved with their typical speed of an arthritic sloth on a go-slow...
I think I'd want to vent my spleen on Facebook too, whether I was a counsellor, a Mother Theresa impersonator, or even next in line as the Pope!
He had an opinion, he expressed it, end of story - everything else is hysterical nonsense!
Portland Bill
says...
11:36am Tue 12 Mar 13
louise744
says...
3:21pm Tue 12 Mar 13
Bob Goulding
says...
4:05pm Tue 12 Mar 13
louise744 wrote:Exactly! I'd still like to know who conspired to make the comments public, however, because betrayal of trust is a big deal.
I don't know why such a big deal has come out of this, so he writes a status saying Costa staff are useless. Freedom of speech and all that Jazz. no one can say they've never gone home to there wives/husbands etc and slagged off a member of staff. So doing it on Facebook to where he obviously thought he had his 'friends' on there, is so much different is it?? people need to take a joke!!
cj07589
says...
8:09pm Tue 12 Mar 13
Bob Goulding wrote:Excellent point!
louise744 wrote:Exactly! I'd still like to know who conspired to make the comments public, however, because betrayal of trust is a big deal.
I don't know why such a big deal has come out of this, so he writes a status saying Costa staff are useless. Freedom of speech and all that Jazz. no one can say they've never gone home to there wives/husbands etc and slagged off a member of staff. So doing it on Facebook to where he obviously thought he had his 'friends' on there, is so much different is it?? people need to take a joke!!
Portland Bill
says...
9:41pm Tue 12 Mar 13
lets be fair!
says...
12:15pm Sun 24 Mar 13
do they all congregate in Costa's?
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