Protest against public sector cuts in Dorchester (From Thisisdorset)

Good on them! Pity it was not thousands uniting together instead of **** their lives away or pretending it is someone else's problem. But one day eh?

One day the whole house will go up in flames and the 'nothing to do with me guv' brigade will be as guilty as those who lit the lame!

One day the whole house will go up in flames and the 'nothing to do with me guv' brigade will be as guilty as those who lit the flame!”

Dorset County Council needs to look at it's own leadership and the telephone directory salarys paid to these parasites. Cuts need to start from the top, maximum salarys of £40k. And before these 'leaders' complain they are worth more, the truth of the matter is that they wouldn't last a day in the private sector.

What are you on about thetiger? Telephone directory salaries? Who are you referring to? Public sector workers in general. If you are then you must be seriously misguided. But I agree DCC need to look at it's apparent leadership and so called management.

Some village is missing an idiot!

thetiger wrote:
Dorset County Council needs to look at it's own leadership and the telephone directory salarys paid to these parasites. Cuts need to start from the top, maximum salarys of £40k. And before these 'leaders' complain they are worth more, the truth of the matter is that they wouldn't last a day in the private sector.

I couldn't agree more.

See the gravytrain has pulled into Dorchester South.

No doubt it was free transport, like the free buses to countyhall...

Sack the lot of them. If they had not wasted millions of pounds of our taxes, traffic lights, ivory towers etc, they would not be faceing cuts.

You get what you pay for. You cannot freeze council tax for 3 years, and still get the same services. Why not increase council tax.

SRA wrote:
You get what you pay for. You cannot freeze council tax for 3 years, and still get the same services. Why not increase council tax.

Good idea. Lets make those in the private sector pay more. After all, they don't get good pensions, or inflationary pay rises, or increments.
Actually, here is a better one : let's get rid of the 800,000 employees added to the public sector since 1997.

JamesYoung wrote:

SRA wrote:
You get what you pay for. You cannot freeze council tax for 3 years, and still get the same services. Why not increase council tax.

Good idea. Lets make those in the private sector pay more. After all, they don't get good pensions, or inflationary pay rises, or increments.
Actually, here is a better one : let's get rid of the 800,000 employees added to the public sector since 1997.

What is James on about! No pensions or high salaries in the private sector! What utter tosh! It's people in the private sector who bankrupted the country for goodnes sake!

Am I the only one growing tired of 'Union Action'? It seems nothing more than rumour mongering, disruption, and moaning. Constant articles and quotas from the likes of Pamela Jefferies and other union reps, with words such as 'we must fight' - what exactly are the unions fighting for? I'm becoming more convinced its not the best interest of the mass they represent, but instead the demonstration and justification of their existence.

JamesYoung wrote:

SRA wrote:
You get what you pay for. You cannot freeze council tax for 3 years, and still get the same services. Why not increase council tax.

Good idea. Lets make those in the private sector pay more. After all, they don't get good pensions, or inflationary pay rises, or increments.
Actually, here is a better one : let's get rid of the 800,000 employees added to the public sector since 1997.

James - you are talking rubbish man. It is the public sector who will save us fem this crisis. The same crisis the private sector brought to us.

Of course the public sector "adds value" to the the UK - only an idiot would argue that police, NHS, army etc do not provide services that we all need or value.

However, the simple fact is that the UK Government has been spending much more than it receives in tax revenue. This deficit has to be financed by borrowing and unfortunately, this overborrowing continued even at the peak of the economic cycle when with hindsight we should been running budget surpluses.

The UK was not alone - many countries overborrowed thinking the boom would go on for ever, but we are where we are. Whatever you think of the current government, if they were to fail to curtail the overspending the result would be a collapse in confidence in the UK from the international financial markets i.e. the people who are lending us the money. If this were to happen, interest rates would spike upwards leading to financial woe for UK households and businesses and even less tax reveunes for the government.

So as is well known to anyone in the private sector, we are feeling the pinch in terms of job losses, pay freezes/cuts etc etc and it is only fair that those in the public sector take their share of the pain as well.

I cant balme the public sector unions for fighting the cuts - after all they are simply trying to protect their sub paying members, but at the end of the day Britain needs to cut its cloth and politics need not ever come into this.

marabout wrote:

JamesYoung wrote:

SRA wrote:
You get what you pay for. You cannot freeze council tax for 3 years, and still get the same services. Why not increase council tax.

Good idea. Lets make those in the private sector pay more. After all, they don't get good pensions, or inflationary pay rises, or increments.
Actually, here is a better one : let's get rid of the 800,000 employees added to the public sector since 1997.

James - you are talking rubbish man. It is the public sector who will save us fem this crisis. The same crisis the private sector brought to us.

Have you taken your meds??

JamesYoung wrote:

SRA wrote:
You get what you pay for. You cannot freeze council tax for 3 years, and still get the same services. Why not increase council tax.

Good idea. Lets make those in the private sector pay more. After all, they don't get good pensions, or inflationary pay rises, or increments.
Actually, here is a better one : let's get rid of the 800,000 employees added to the public sector since 1997.

I couldn't agree more James !
Lets go further and privatize all public sector services,they would be run far more efficiently.
Just think how much money would be saved for the tax payer,lets get rid of the unions and all other public sector wastrels. Jobs for the boys,not anymore.

Brock_and_Roll wrote:
Of course the public sector "adds value" to the the UK - only an idiot would argue that police, NHS, army etc do not provide services that we all need or value.

However, the simple fact is that the UK Government has been spending much more than it receives in tax revenue. This deficit has to be financed by borrowing and unfortunately, this overborrowing continued even at the peak of the economic cycle when with hindsight we should been running budget surpluses.

The UK was not alone - many countries overborrowed thinking the boom would go on for ever, but we are where we are. Whatever you think of the current government, if they were to fail to curtail the overspending the result would be a collapse in confidence in the UK from the international financial markets i.e. the people who are lending us the money. If this were to happen, interest rates would spike upwards leading to financial woe for UK households and businesses and even less tax reveunes for the government.

So as is well known to anyone in the private sector, we are feeling the pinch in terms of job losses, pay freezes/cuts etc etc and it is only fair that those in the public sector take their share of the pain as well.

I cant balme the public sector unions for fighting the cuts - after all they are simply trying to protect their sub paying members, but at the end of the day Britain needs to cut its cloth and politics need not ever come into this.

At last, a voice of reason and intelligent comment. We simply cannot carry on spending more than we are earning, be it as a household, or as a country. For goodness sake wake up to reality. While I do agree that some council officers are grossly overpaid, and as an example to the rest of us their salaries should be cut to a more realistic level, we also have to face the fact that as a country we have been overspending and over borrowing, and it is time to be realistic and cut back. These things tend to go in cycles, and we have to bare a bit of hardship and pain now, but will reap the benefit later on.

Good grief, some people still cannot seem to grasp basic economics.

when you are in a recession, you need to cut back on spending. Unfortunately for the public sector, and their union (labour) supporters, the public sector is paid for & reliant on the private sector, for it's money. NOT the other way round.

We in the private sector, pay the public sector, to run and staff the services we want, and if our income falls, we cannot support as many of them as we used to.

that is it, very easy to understand.

Only staunch labour supporter, could possibly imagine that the way out of a recession (largely caused by the last labour Govt) would be to borrow yet more money, & employ yet more public sector workers?

We need to cut harder, not give in to these union trouble makers.

Although any reasonable person would feel sorry for anyone losing their jobs through cutbacks they must realise an awful lot of people in the p/s have had to take cuts.My wife is an electronic technician but her firm closed due to the recession a couple of years ago and she has to work for a lot less money in other work.I think this government should think about cutting these huge final salary pensions some of these public sector people get, they should only get what they pay in for the same as anyone outside in the real world.

Dylanfan wrote:

JamesYoung wrote:

SRA wrote:
You get what you pay for. You cannot freeze council tax for 3 years, and still get the same services. Why not increase council tax.

Good idea. Lets make those in the private sector pay more. After all, they don't get good pensions, or inflationary pay rises, or increments.
Actually, here is a better one : let's get rid of the 800,000 employees added to the public sector since 1997.

What is James on about! No pensions or high salaries in the private sector! What utter tosh! It's people in the private sector who bankrupted the country for goodnes sake!

1. It's probably escaped your notice, but 99% of the people in this country are not bankers;
2. It is factually correct to say that except at the very top of the private sector, pensions are poor compared to the public sector;
3. Leaving aside the banking crisis (which is what the politicians that failed to regulate the banks would like you to believe explains all ills), the private sector delivered fifteen years of economic growth. The country went bankrupt because that money was not saved for a rainy day;
4. Only the private sector creates wealth. The public sector consumes it. If the public sector consumes more than the private sector creates in taxes, the country ends up with debt;
5. As we are now paying other countries and banks £44,000,000,000 in interest each year, one could conclude that the public sector needs to be trimmed back so that the debt is reduced.

Ashers 5 wrote:

JamesYoung wrote:

SRA wrote:
You get what you pay for. You cannot freeze council tax for 3 years, and still get the same services. Why not increase council tax.

Good idea. Lets make those in the private sector pay more. After all, they don't get good pensions, or inflationary pay rises, or increments.
Actually, here is a better one : let's get rid of the 800,000 employees added to the public sector since 1997.

I couldn't agree more James !
Lets go further and privatize all public sector services,they would be run far more efficiently.
Just think how much money would be saved for the tax payer,lets get rid of the unions and all other public sector wastrels. Jobs for the boys,not anymore.

Don't _quite_ agree. There are services that should be provided in the public sector, but there are others where the public sector should stay well clear.
What i think needs to happen is for "3rd sector" social enterprises to take on work from the public sector, reinvesting the profits back in the community.
Although i am a vociferous critic of public sector waste and i think the public sector needs to structure itself to be more like the private sector, and, importantly, think like it, i do think the profit motive is incompatible with caring for the vulnerable.

radiator wrote:
Although any reasonable person would feel sorry for anyone losing their jobs through cutbacks they must realise an awful lot of people in the p/s have had to take cuts.My wife is an electronic technician but her firm closed due to the recession a couple of years ago and she has to work for a lot less money in other work.I think this government should think about cutting these huge final salary pensions some of these public sector people get, they should only get what they pay in for the same as anyone outside in the real world.

I agree.
Actually what would be nice was if the government had one pension scheme that everybody,private or public sector, paid into. The pension companies could still provide services to that scheme, but the government would award contracts based on a fair return. The idea that a pension fund takes £1500 a year off me in management charges, in a situation where the FTSE100 has increased by 12%, but the pension fund has fallen 5%, is unacceptable. Even a sixteen year old should be able to achieve a 12% return by buying and keeping FTSE100 shares.

JamesYoung wrote:

Ashers 5 wrote:

JamesYoung wrote:

SRA wrote:
You get what you pay for. You cannot freeze council tax for 3 years, and still get the same services. Why not increase council tax.

Good idea. Lets make those in the private sector pay more. After all, they don't get good pensions, or inflationary pay rises, or increments.
Actually, here is a better one : let's get rid of the 800,000 employees added to the public sector since 1997.

I couldn't agree more James !
Lets go further and privatize all public sector services,they would be run far more efficiently.
Just think how much money would be saved for the tax payer,lets get rid of the unions and all other public sector wastrels. Jobs for the boys,not anymore.

Don't _quite_ agree. There are services that should be provided in the public sector, but there are others where the public sector should stay well clear.
What i think needs to happen is for "3rd sector" social enterprises to take on work from the public sector, reinvesting the profits back in the community.
Although i am a vociferous critic of public sector waste and i think the public sector needs to structure itself to be more like the private sector, and, importantly, think like it, i do think the profit motive is incompatible with caring for the vulnerable.

OK....but which services are better run and most cost effective whilst run in the public sector?

SRA wrote:
You get what you pay for. You cannot freeze council tax for 3 years, and still get the same services. Why not increase council tax.

What we need is more efficiency, less fancy salaries and goody pension schemes, NOT an increase in Council Tax! Privatise the public sector and bring these people into the real world.

This is not a protest against service cuts!
They are just worried about their jobs not their work.


HUNDREDS of demonstrators turned out in the rain to protest against public sector cuts in Dorset.

Protestors from various unions united together despite the rain and the cold today) to protest the latest round of cuts to the public sector.

The demonstration was organised by the Dorchester, Weymouth, Portland and District Trades Union Council and comes as members of Dorset County Council prepare to vote on whether to agree a further £10.9million of cuts in the coming financial year.

JamesYoung wrote:

Dylanfan wrote:

JamesYoung wrote:

SRA wrote:
You get what you pay for. You cannot freeze council tax for 3 years, and still get the same services. Why not increase council tax.

Good idea. Lets make those in the private sector pay more. After all, they don't get good pensions, or inflationary pay rises, or increments.
Actually, here is a better one : let's get rid of the 800,000 employees added to the public sector since 1997.

What is James on about! No pensions or high salaries in the private sector! What utter tosh! It's people in the private sector who bankrupted the country for goodnes sake!

1. It's probably escaped your notice, but 99% of the people in this country are not bankers;
2. It is factually correct to say that except at the very top of the private sector, pensions are poor compared to the public sector;
3. Leaving aside the banking crisis (which is what the politicians that failed to regulate the banks would like you to believe explains all ills), the private sector delivered fifteen years of economic growth. The country went bankrupt because that money was not saved for a rainy day;
4. Only the private sector creates wealth. The public sector consumes it. If the public sector consumes more than the private sector creates in taxes, the country ends up with debt;
5. As we are now paying other countries and banks £44,000,000,000 in interest each year, one could conclude that the public sector needs to be trimmed back so that the debt is reduced.

The headlines do not portray the truth of the matter. I was not referring to the bankers, rather, financiers who encourage private business to spend money it does not have. This is entirely in line with your thinking but aimed in the wrong direction. Stop and think - Since privatisation of a great meny public services have you seen an improvement, have things got cheaper? Anyone can see that they have not.and in most cases have escalated as other financial parasites find their prey. If you want workers, whether in the public or private sector, to earn money to spend, you really should stop trying to divide the workforce. Without money in the system there will be no jobs.Is that coffee I smell?

It is complete myth that the private sector is more efficient than the public sector. If the private sector is so great why has the worldwide taxpayer had to fork out tens of trillions of pounds to bail it out? The private sector is a mercenary model that seeks to push wages and outgoings down to maximise the profits for the few. What we require is a non profit compenent to listed services from health and education to production and maintenance. Otherwise we don't get quality just short cuts that require a short shelf life so that more money can be made. The only reason private education and health appear to be more efficient is that only a small minority can access. Look to the USA and you start to see the reality of majority private provision. A living hell for tens of millions!

Dylanfan wrote:

JamesYoung wrote:

Dylanfan wrote:

JamesYoung wrote:

SRA wrote:
You get what you pay for. You cannot freeze council tax for 3 years, and still get the same services. Why not increase council tax.

Good idea. Lets make those in the private sector pay more. After all, they don't get good pensions, or inflationary pay rises, or increments.
Actually, here is a better one : let's get rid of the 800,000 employees added to the public sector since 1997.

What is James on about! No pensions or high salaries in the private sector! What utter tosh! It's people in the private sector who bankrupted the country for goodnes sake!

1. It's probably escaped your notice, but 99% of the people in this country are not bankers;
2. It is factually correct to say that except at the very top of the private sector, pensions are poor compared to the public sector;
3. Leaving aside the banking crisis (which is what the politicians that failed to regulate the banks would like you to believe explains all ills), the private sector delivered fifteen years of economic growth. The country went bankrupt because that money was not saved for a rainy day;
4. Only the private sector creates wealth. The public sector consumes it. If the public sector consumes more than the private sector creates in taxes, the country ends up with debt;
5. As we are now paying other countries and banks £44,000,000,000 in interest each year, one could conclude that the public sector needs to be trimmed back so that the debt is reduced.

The headlines do not portray the truth of the matter. I was not referring to the bankers, rather, financiers who encourage private business to spend money it does not have. This is entirely in line with your thinking but aimed in the wrong direction. Stop and think - Since privatisation of a great meny public services have you seen an improvement, have things got cheaper? Anyone can see that they have not.and in most cases have escalated as other financial parasites find their prey. If you want workers, whether in the public or private sector, to earn money to spend, you really should stop trying to divide the workforce. Without money in the system there will be no jobs.Is that coffee I smell?

I'm not really sure what your point is? Without the private sector, there would be no public sector. While I would agree that privatisation has brought few benefits, you seem to think that the only alternatives are a bloated inefficient public sector or a mercenary private sector. That's not the case. What we need is an efficient public sector. As for dividing the work force, there is nothing more divisive than having a bunch of cossetted public sector workers demanding that everybody but them should pay the bill.
As others have said, the private sector can no longer afford the public sector. It's as simple as that. Of course, some of this pain would have been avoided if the Unions had met the councils half way two or three years ago. They didn't. Worth looking at the salary and pension packages of the top Union officials if you want to understand why they are so adamant that they won't compromise.

Privatisation of public services? And take it the way of utility companies? 9% rise one year which is met with cries of pain from the public, only to be followed by a 2% decrease the year after which is celebrated like a win for the common man. Privatisation will achieve one thing, a higher overall cost to the consumer i.e. us! Will the services be more efficient? Probably. Will they be cheaper? Almost certainly not.

Surely the starting point in this whole argument is identifying what everyone considers as 'the fat'. Some say council big wigs, high earning managers, others say inefficient services, intelligent traffic lights...

Put a vote out to the people of Dorset, put all of the services that the council provides on it, and let every resident vote on 'critical' services. The lowest ranked get cut... You'll find that half of the problem is the residents of Dorset generally don't agree.

Whatever happened to the £28 million
that DCC, foolishly, put into Icelandic
Banks? As far as I know no money has been returned? Just a thought!

Are the little communists whining again, they upset now all the tax payers money has been flittered away on the P.C agenda's there's none left? Oh boo-hoo. TOUGH !

The polish and Bulgarians are up next, coming here under an immigration policy your Unions and the Labour party flooded this country with out of spite to your own country and people, you are all now easily replaceable by the very thing your reps did....at a cheaper rate too and longer hours.

Ironic but hilarious eh:-)

p.stant wrote:
Are the little communists whining again, they upset now all the tax payers money has been flittered away on the P.C agenda's there's none left? Oh boo-hoo. TOUGH !

The polish and Bulgarians are up next, coming here under an immigration policy your Unions and the Labour party flooded this country with out of spite to your own country and people, you are all now easily replaceable by the very thing your reps did....at a cheaper rate too and longer hours.

Ironic but hilarious eh:-)

Welcome back Cecil

p.stant wrote:
Are the little communists whining again, they upset now all the tax payers money has been flittered away on the P.C agenda's there's none left? Oh boo-hoo. TOUGH !

The polish and Bulgarians are up next, coming here under an immigration policy your Unions and the Labour party flooded this country with out of spite to your own country and people, you are all now easily replaceable by the very thing your reps did....at a cheaper rate too and longer hours.

Ironic but hilarious eh:-)

So, so right; p.stant.

Do these public sector unions really think that "drums and whistles" etc is going to win public opinion? No it's just the usual lefties and PC brigade thinking their demos will win public support - how wrong can you get?

All of us have to pay our Council Tax and yet what do we get - a County Council with bloated staff (just look at the many extensions to County Hall) and officials that invest money in Icelandic Banks and come-up with crazy schemes such as "Weymouth Transport Package"!!

It really is time that some commercial thinking was introduced into Dorset County Council.

Meanwhile....we still have to pay for this bloated empire.

banknote wrote:

p.stant wrote:
Are the little communists whining again, they upset now all the tax payers money has been flittered away on the P.C agenda's there's none left? Oh boo-hoo. TOUGH !

The polish and Bulgarians are up next, coming here under an immigration policy your Unions and the Labour party flooded this country with out of spite to your own country and people, you are all now easily replaceable by the very thing your reps did....at a cheaper rate too and longer hours.

Ironic but hilarious eh:-)

So, so right; p.stant.

Do these public sector unions really think that "drums and whistles" etc is going to win public opinion? No it's just the usual lefties and PC brigade thinking their demos will win public support - how wrong can you get?

All of us have to pay our Council Tax and yet what do we get - a County Council with bloated staff (just look at the many extensions to County Hall) and officials that invest money in Icelandic Banks and come-up with crazy schemes such as "Weymouth Transport Package"!!

It really is time that some commercial thinking was introduced into Dorset County Council.

Meanwhile....we still have to pay for this bloated empire.

Be careful what you say, here ensure comrade Woodsedge agrees with your political opinion in advance. If not a reasonable healthy debate is not possible. Btw if you don't agree then your obviously a right wing fascist.
Thanks in advance from the dear leader Woodsedge.

cj07589, your reply is somewhat garbled.

As for "then your (? you're?) obviously a right wing facist" - how on earth do you come-up with that statement. For the record my own father was killed by facists in 1944, so I hardly think I would be a "facist" - all I was doing was pointing out that the unions and the PC brigade will not further their cause with bebells, whistles, flags etc; will further their cause with the general public. The public, after all, fund the council and their empire building.

Perhaps an apology from you is in order?

I'm afraid my own contribution above got somewhat garbled! Nevertheless, from talking to many folk - this type of demonstration is counter-productive and is typical of lefty/PC behavior. These folk have to wake-up to the real world, because we all fund their jobs.

Incidently, what does the flag waving and drumming remind you of??

banknote wrote:
cj07589, your reply is somewhat garbled.

As for "then your (? you're?) obviously a right wing facist" - how on earth do you come-up with that statement. For the record my own father was killed by facists in 1944, so I hardly think I would be a "facist" - all I was doing was pointing out that the unions and the PC brigade will not further their cause with bebells, whistles, flags etc; will further their cause with the general public. The public, after all, fund the council and their empire building.

Perhaps an apology from you is in order?

it was directed at Woodsedge, not you. Woodsedge's views are generally to the left of centre.

JamesYoung wrote:

SRA wrote: You get what you pay for. You cannot freeze council tax for 3 years, and still get the same services. Why not increase council tax.

Good idea. Lets make those in the private sector pay more. After all, they don't get good pensions, or inflationary pay rises, or increments. Actually, here is a better one : let's get rid of the 800,000 employees added to the public sector since 1997.

And furthermore they don't have to carry on working well into retirement either. Millions of people in private sector, like me, will never know what retirement means. Millions of us have never been able to save for a pension - try living on £109 a week!

Public vs private squabble - just as the Establishment and the ruling classes like it. Keep it up and do their job for them. Low wages; dog fights and an erosion of our rights whilst we stand by fighting each other. Funny to the few but tragic to the many!

Hateignorance wrote:
Public vs private squabble - just as the Establishment and the ruling classes like it. Keep it up and do their job for them. Low wages; dog fights and an erosion of our rights whilst we stand by fighting each other. Funny to the few but tragic to the many!

Funny how its only the public sector that spout this old line isn't it.
What you are really saying is that we should resist the "race to the bottom" by protecting unaffordable public sector terms and conditions at the expense of the impoverished private sector workers.
We aren't all it together are we?

Hateignorance wrote:
Public vs private squabble - just as the Establishment and the ruling classes like it. Keep it up and do their job for them. Low wages; dog fights and an erosion of our rights whilst we stand by fighting each other. Funny to the few but tragic to the many!

Hateignorance, you are correct and spot on in your comments about the "masters" sitting back and laughing at the hired help squabbling over the crumbs, whilst they raid the pick of the public sector for personal gain. That said, too many ex public sector employees and private gain merchants on here who will only see the bigger picture when it's to late.

The fact remains that the union/leftie/PC brigade think that the rest of us owe them a living in their bloated local government empires.

I speak of someone who's wife worked for DCC.

No we don't owe you a living, we all have to pay for you - a spell in the private sector would do you all the world of good.

Can't "Unison" see that these, so called, demonstrations are counter-productive. They remind us all of facist style demos with their flags, whistles and drums?

The union bosses are only interested in their own salaries and pensions. When will the deluded folk who marched see this?

JamesYoung wrote:

Hateignorance wrote:
Public vs private squabble - just as the Establishment and the ruling classes like it. Keep it up and do their job for them. Low wages; dog fights and an erosion of our rights whilst we stand by fighting each other. Funny to the few but tragic to the many!

Funny how its only the public sector that spout this old line isn't it.
What you are really saying is that we should resist the "race to the bottom" by protecting unaffordable public sector terms and conditions at the expense of the impoverished private sector workers.
We aren't all it together are we?

James,

Totally agree.

JamesYoung wrote:

banknote wrote:
cj07589, your reply is somewhat garbled.

As for "then your (? you're?) obviously a right wing facist" - how on earth do you come-up with that statement. For the record my own father was killed by facists in 1944, so I hardly think I would be a "facist" - all I was doing was pointing out that the unions and the PC brigade will not further their cause with bebells, whistles, flags etc; will further their cause with the general public. The public, after all, fund the council and their empire building.

Perhaps an apology from you is in order?

it was directed at Woodsedge, not you. Woodsedge's views are generally to the left of centre.

James,

I sure you would agree - it was a strange reply to my comment.

banknote wrote:

JamesYoung wrote:

banknote wrote:
cj07589, your reply is somewhat garbled.

As for "then your (? you're?) obviously a right wing facist" - how on earth do you come-up with that statement. For the record my own father was killed by facists in 1944, so I hardly think I would be a "facist" - all I was doing was pointing out that the unions and the PC brigade will not further their cause with bebells, whistles, flags etc; will further their cause with the general public. The public, after all, fund the council and their empire building.

Perhaps an apology from you is in order?

it was directed at Woodsedge, not you. Woodsedge's views are generally to the left of centre.

James,

I sure you would agree - it was a strange reply to my comment.

It's the way this website deals with quotation. To the unitiated its not easy to see who is saying what.

woodsedge wrote:

Hateignorance wrote:
Public vs private squabble - just as the Establishment and the ruling classes like it. Keep it up and do their job for them. Low wages; dog fights and an erosion of our rights whilst we stand by fighting each other. Funny to the few but tragic to the many!

Hateignorance, you are correct and spot on in your comments about the "masters" sitting back and laughing at the hired help squabbling over the crumbs, whilst they raid the pick of the public sector for personal gain. That said, too many ex public sector employees and private gain merchants on here who will only see the bigger picture when it's to late.

Ah, a transparent attempt at suggesting that only current public sector employees can be trusted with understanding the bigger picture.

What a terrifying idea.

If your daughter had £20,000 debt would you advise her to take on more?

It's a pertinent question, because that is the amount of debt this government has taken on, on behalf of each man, woman and child in this country. That debt means that every month, your tax bill has to be £100 higher than it would be if governments past and present had not got us all into debt.

In fact, i'm beginning to wonder what the bigger threat to this country is.

Bankers, who want the taxpayer to get into debt to bail them out so they can stay wealthier than the average worker, but are the focus of public derision and government enquiry.

Or public sector workers, who want the taxpayer to to get into debt to bail them out so they can stay wealthier than the average person AND at the expense of the most vulnerable.

The Unions talk about "alternatives" and Sounds lovely. What are those alternatives? We live in a closed system, so government spending = additional debt.
In that situation, the only way that economic growth can happen without subsidy is for companies to cut their wage bills.
Is that what the public sector really wants? Private sector wages cut further? Why, exactly, should we live in penury?

Well senior members of the Tory party and UKIP want us to be able to negotiate our own trade agreements whilst at the same time abandoning the minimum wage. Thus it would enable the UK to compete with the sweat shops in the far east and India. Outcome: low wages; higher levels of individual debt; more poverty (and all the associated consequences eg higher crime, more sickness, less educated, more homelessness...) whilst at the same time axing all those services that pick up the pieces. Sounds like a plan boys! Keep up the armchair dictatorship.

Hateignorance wrote:
Well senior members of the Tory party and UKIP want us to be able to negotiate our own trade agreements whilst at the same time abandoning the minimum wage. Thus it would enable the UK to compete with the sweat shops in the far east and India. Outcome: low wages; higher levels of individual debt; more poverty (and all the associated consequences eg higher crime, more sickness, less educated, more homelessness...) whilst at the same time axing all those services that pick up the pieces. Sounds like a plan boys! Keep up the armchair dictatorship.

Most of the social advances in our country were made at a time when there was no minimum wage and the country negotiated its own trade agreements.

Hateignorance wrote:
Well senior members of the Tory party and UKIP want us to be able to negotiate our own trade agreements whilst at the same time abandoning the minimum wage. Thus it would enable the UK to compete with the sweat shops in the far east and India. Outcome: low wages; higher levels of individual debt; more poverty (and all the associated consequences eg higher crime, more sickness, less educated, more homelessness...) whilst at the same time axing all those services that pick up the pieces. Sounds like a plan boys! Keep up the armchair dictatorship.

So I gather you are in favour of us staying in this blasted EU who is telling us that we have to accept all these immigrants in , thats whats driving the wages down.As I have said on another post its the trade unions that has helped ruin this country and given chance they will do the same again. I remember Mark Serwotka on question time saying that he would have great pleasure in trying to upset this government.These people want to live in a communist country and see how they get on.

James - you mean when we were exploiting and murdering by the hundreds of thousands in the empire?

'Radiator'- NO! But I would rather social democracy than an Etonian dictatorship. As for immigration even the loosest examination of your argument suggests irrationality and a hatred that humanity should shun with a punacious resiliance.. Those sentiments are a sign of deep emotional and psychological torment that perhaps an investigation of your childhood is required.

Nope, I was talking about the last hundred years.

Although if you are talking about slavery, worth noting that William Pitt and Wm Wilberforce were Tories.

As for immigration, it is not racist to question the impact that mass immigration has had on the economy.

Take a look at MigrationWatch.org. I don't think you can accuse them of racism, do you?

Yes James I can - any understanding of the 'end of slavery' would enable you to quickly identify how it continued and still continues through the exploitation of immigrants as cheap labour both here and abroad. The industrial revolution only occurred in this country as a result of the wealth created from slavery. Wilberforce and Pitt did very little to combat the economic exploitation and Wilberforce himself although a key political figure with power did very little of the hard work to bring it about. Both would have demanded a very different approach if they sincerely wanted to end the exploitation of non whites. Read Robin Blackburn's account for a fine and enlightening analysis. Also this site which has received international recognition as leading the way against oppression - http://theultimatesh
ambles.weebly.com/fe
atures.html