UPDATED: Poole council set to "dodge democracy" by raising council tax (From Thisisdorset)
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UPDATED: Poole council set to "dodge democracy" by raising council tax
1:40pm Monday 28th January 2013 in Latest By Darren Slade, Chief Reporter
Elaine Atkinson
POOLE council is likely to put up its council tax by 1.95 per cent this year – incurring the wrath of cabinet minister Eric Pickles.
The communities secretary has hit out at councils which set rises just under two per cent – the figure that would force them to put the rise to a referendum - accusing them of "dodging democracy".
Mr Pickles said "those who put up their stealth tax by 1.99 per cent in a bid to avoid our two per cent referendum threshold need a reality check''.
But Borough of Poole leader Cllr Elaine Atkinson has joined other Conservative council leaders in rounding on the secretary.
Cllr Atkinson said the council had budgeted for an increase of 1.95 per cent.
She said the council was the fourth worst funded unitary authority in the country and received 44 per cent less in grants than the average unitary authority.
“We’ve got the lowest council tax in Dorset for a band D property. Even if we increase council tax, we would still be the lowest council tax for a band D property,” she said.
She said of Mr Pickles' comments: “It’s exasperating. I as leader of the council and leaders of other councils are making representations to Mr Pickles about his sweeping statements.
“Austerity is being delivered by local authorities, it isn’t being delivered from Whitehall, it’s being delivered in local towns and cities.”
The government has required councils who want to put up their share of the tax by more than two per cent to call a referendum. Mr Pickles says some are planning to put up the tax by 1.99 per cent, or increase the waste and transport elements which lawyers say may not be covered by the cap.
Bournemouth council is hoping to freeze its council tax when it sets the budget next month, its leader has said.
Cllr John Beesley told the Daily Echo: “I hope and expect Bournemouth's financial position will be good enough to resist any increase in council tax.”
The council has frozen its share of the tax bill for the last two years.
He stressed that the police and fire share of the bill would rise.
“It isn't the whole of the bill that's determined by the local council. The fire and police precepts are a part of the council tax bill,” he said.
“The police have already indicated they will be putting that up by close to the limit. The government have given Dorset Fire Authority permission to raise their precept by far more than the two per cent - something like eight per cent.
“Mr Pickles' own department have given them permission to do that.”
Cllr Beesley added: “Residents need to be aware that the government have cut our grant funding by near 30 per cent in the space of four years.
“Local government is a fine example of how to deal with an efficiency and transformation agenda without cutting services. The government would have a great deal to learn from the way that Bournemouth in particular has managed that process.”
Mr Pickles said of this year's bills that ''those who put up their stealth tax by 1.99 per cent in a bid to avoid our two per cent referendum threshold need a reality check''.
''We will take into consideration anybody cheating their taxpayers,'' he said. ''Anybody using loopholes will lose out next year.''
He went on: ''What residents really want is cuts to taxes not bin collections; potholes filled not pockets. Councils that put their people first will get the idea.”
Cllr Spencer Flower, cabinet member for resources at Dorset County Council, said the county was likely to freeze council tax.
“I think all the signs are that we will probably freeze it although I also think it’s up to members to make that judgement. I don’t think it’s helpful at all that Eric Pickles feels it’s appropriate to stick an oar in,” he said.
He said the two per cent rule was a clear boundary and Mr Pickles could not complain when councils set rises of 1.99 per cent.
“It’s only the rule he’s set. I don’t think it’s a loophole at all,” he said.
“All local government has been through the mill to help central government deal with the financial deficit.”
He said if this year’s budget was approved, the council would have saved around £60million a year from a budget of around £300m since the spending squeeze began. “In very proud of what we’ve managed achieve with a minimum impact on communities,” he added.
And he said East Dorset District Council, which he leads, had saved £2.25m against an expected £1.5m by working more closely with Christchurch.
“If central government had achieved as much as local government, we’d have made a bigger debt in the national deficit,” he added.
Dorset’s chief fire officer Darren Gunter said the rules allowed authorities who were in the bottom quartile for council tax to put up their bills by up to £5 a year. That would equate to an eight per cent rise.
He said a freeze in council tax would mean a cut to front-line services. The authority had been consulting the public and its recommendations on what to do about council tax would be made public on February 14.
He said the service had suffered a 14 per cent cut in government grant. “We haven’t put up council tax for the last two years,” he said.
Comments(45)
muscliffman
says...
12:08pm Mon 28 Jan 13
“Local government is a fine example of how to deal with an efficiency and transformation agenda without cutting services. The government would have a great deal to learn from the way that Bournemouth in particular has managed that process.”
Priceless!
Someone call the nurse.
HRH of Boscombe
says...
12:23pm Mon 28 Jan 13
rayc wrote:Have you seen the streets of Islington? Fair play to their Council.
Don't worry, Councils have always found ways to get that little bit more by using the powers given to them by Central Government. The latest one for London Councils is Litter Fines. http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-england-lon don-21200058
rayc
says...
12:26pm Mon 28 Jan 13
Mr Pickles was quite right then, there was plenty of scope to save money in Local Government. The question has to be why were East Dorset District Council putting up Council Tax year on year when there was the potential to make savings?
rayc
says...
12:33pm Mon 28 Jan 13
HRH of Boscombe wrote:Fair enough.
rayc wrote:Have you seen the streets of Islington? Fair play to their Council.
Don't worry, Councils have always found ways to get that little bit more by using the powers given to them by Central Government. The latest one for London Councils is Litter Fines. http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-england-lon don-21200058
The Magistrate's Association believes the situation is dangerous saying ""Private companies don't report to anybody, the public can't question it - there's very limited appeal provisions."
Still if you do nothing wrong you'll have nothing to worry about. Just don't drop a pen by accident or let your toddler drop a crisp.
l'anglais
says...
12:51pm Mon 28 Jan 13
So when you next see your bin being emptied, say a big thank you to those high earners from the Home Counties.
Income Tax and VAT pay for 4/5ths of your local services.
In Absentia
says...
12:53pm Mon 28 Jan 13
He should have set the threshold lower if he'd wanted lower increases in council tax bills. What did he really expect?
muscliffman
says...
1:31pm Mon 28 Jan 13
rayc wrote:Because in classic public sector manner, particularly under Labour (bank rolled by public-sector Unions), they were able to help themselves to it for risk free fat-cat salaries and gold-plated pensions.
Cllr Spencer Flower said "East Dorset District Council, which he leads, had saved £2.25m against an expected £1.5m by working more closely with Christchurch".
Mr Pickles was quite right then, there was plenty of scope to save money in Local Government. The question has to be why were East Dorset District Council putting up Council Tax year on year when there was the potential to make savings?
That is where so much of our tax is going I am afraid.
BmthNewshound
says...
2:10pm Mon 28 Jan 13
muscliffman wrote:Cllr Beesley is completely deluded. He's bankrupting the town by using up the reserves to finance his warped view of efficiency and transformation. The £millions he's squandered is breathtaking.
Read this from Cllr Beesley again please.
“Local government is a fine example of how to deal with an efficiency and transformation agenda without cutting services. The government would have a great deal to learn from the way that Bournemouth in particular has managed that process.”
Priceless!
Someone call the nurse.
.
Problem is people in the town don't care. Most can't be bothered to vote. One of the reasons the Council is so keen on allowing the building of retirement flats is that they know that a higher proportion of retired people vote and the ones with the money to move into these complexes will vote for Beelsey and his cronies.
.
Personally I think Poole is doing the right thing. 1.95% is a very modest increase but will prevent the need for a bigger increase in future years. Most people understand that services have to be paid for. Expecting Councils to have a referendum to increase council tax is ridiculous, they'd cost a fortune to organise and most people wouldn't bother to vote. Its a bit rich the government expecting councils to have a referendum before putting up taxes when the chancellor does it with no public consultation everytime he announces tax increase in the budget.
paul.p
says...
2:22pm Mon 28 Jan 13
I still think the Fire Brigade precept should be connected with the House Insurance in some way.
The way things are going people will wonder what the heck they're paying out for...one day...if they can bothered.
nobbjockie
says...
2:36pm Mon 28 Jan 13
HRH of Boscombe
says...
2:44pm Mon 28 Jan 13
rayc wrote:On the same point though private companies have no way to enforce their fines even if they do find someone stupid enough to give them their details.
HRH of Boscombe wrote:Fair enough. The Magistrate's Association believes the situation is dangerous saying ""Private companies don't report to anybody, the public can't question it - there's very limited appeal provisions." Still if you do nothing wrong you'll have nothing to worry about. Just don't drop a pen by accident or let your toddler drop a crisp.rayc wrote: Don't worry, Councils have always found ways to get that little bit more by using the powers given to them by Central Government. The latest one for London Councils is Litter Fines. http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-england-lon don-21200058Have you seen the streets of Islington? Fair play to their Council.
.
I would do it just to bait one of them to try. Unfortunately they know that too and will just pick easy targets.
HRH of Boscombe
says...
2:51pm Mon 28 Jan 13
.
No mention of the income they provide the council which many other towns don't have.
cmci2012
says...
3:15pm Mon 28 Jan 13
The Renegade Master
says...
3:16pm Mon 28 Jan 13
What new money making schemes do the powers that be have in store for us this year? Raise parking charges further? Paint more double yellow lines all over the place and buy a couple more parking cars? Encourage the local constabulary to forget catching criminals and concentrate their efforts on penalising the motorist for profit? Oh whoops, they've already done most of that. Oh well, I'm sure they'll think of something to keep their snouts in the trough.
djkent
says...
3:31pm Mon 28 Jan 13
BIGTONE
says...
3:57pm Mon 28 Jan 13
Another thing to bear in mind is apart from obvious rising costs of services etc. what have the Councils really achieved to make our lives better and easier now they are awash with our money?
Hessenford
says...
4:40pm Mon 28 Jan 13
This country is heading for a triple dip recession, is it any wonder when every one is taxed to death.
The more we are taxed the less we have to spend doesn't any idiot know this.
The united Kingdom will be in a sorry state for years as long as we have people running our local councils using us as a cash cow to pay for their luxury's.
apm1954
says...
4:56pm Mon 28 Jan 13
John T
says...
5:04pm Mon 28 Jan 13
These Conservatives need reminding of their local Election mantra, i.e. 'Enough is Enough'.
rayc
says...
5:06pm Mon 28 Jan 13
HRH of Boscombe wrote:I think you will find that these companies are working on behalf of the Council and the council have the power to put you in front of a Magistrate if you do not pay the Penalty Charge. It is similar to refusing to pay a council issued parking ticket.
rayc wrote:On the same point though private companies have no way to enforce their fines even if they do find someone stupid enough to give them their details.
HRH of Boscombe wrote:Fair enough. The Magistrate's Association believes the situation is dangerous saying ""Private companies don't report to anybody, the public can't question it - there's very limited appeal provisions." Still if you do nothing wrong you'll have nothing to worry about. Just don't drop a pen by accident or let your toddler drop a crisp.rayc wrote: Don't worry, Councils have always found ways to get that little bit more by using the powers given to them by Central Government. The latest one for London Councils is Litter Fines. http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-england-lon don-21200058Have you seen the streets of Islington? Fair play to their Council.
.
I would do it just to bait one of them to try. Unfortunately they know that too and will just pick easy targets.
John T
says...
5:20pm Mon 28 Jan 13
Where did all our reserves go??
s-pb2
says...
5:43pm Mon 28 Jan 13
nobbjockie
says...
6:22pm Mon 28 Jan 13
apm1954 wrote:As I said...gutless, all of them!
come on cllr atkinson speak up for poole 44% lower funding than the average unitary , nothing has changed has it happy to be elected wont speak out against there party, think poole for a change not party politics.
Dr Strangelove
says...
6:38pm Mon 28 Jan 13
guisselle
says...
6:38pm Mon 28 Jan 13
nobbjockie wrote:Disgraceful traitor we need a local
apm1954 wrote:As I said...gutless, all of them!
come on cllr atkinson speak up for poole 44% lower funding than the average unitary , nothing has changed has it happy to be elected wont speak out against there party, think poole for a change not party politics.
representative!
DUCKFEEDER
says...
6:40pm Mon 28 Jan 13
if you are happy with the council vote them in.
and if you can't be bothered to vote don't moan
davidhaz
says...
6:47pm Mon 28 Jan 13
Carolyn43
says...
6:54pm Mon 28 Jan 13
DUCKFEEDER wrote:Unfortunately a council can't be voted OUT. You can only vote FOR someone, not against them. They wouldn't dare allow that!
if you aren't happy with the council, vote them out.
if you are happy with the council vote them in.
and if you can't be bothered to vote don't moan
tramp_about_town
says...
7:17pm Mon 28 Jan 13
Hobad1
says...
8:03pm Mon 28 Jan 13
tramp_about_town wrote:Lol. You're a funny guy :) Keep it up :)
I think that all councils are amazing and the job they do is fantastic. They serve such deserving people and the public sector workers are also all really amazing. I think we should be looking at paying more tax so that these amazing people can all be recognised for their amazing work they do for all the deserving people that are unable to afford to pay in to the system. Wages need to be increased as well as pensions and also benefits. in fact everything needs to go up.....wages, pensions, benefits and tax....hazar hazar long live the amazing people. I feel so humbled to be surrounded by the amazing when all I can do is contribute.
Hobad1
says...
8:05pm Mon 28 Jan 13
boscombewizard
says...
8:58pm Mon 28 Jan 13
25%
Is that democracy?
nottingham
says...
10:38pm Mon 28 Jan 13
Something has to change its about time Christchurch, Bournemouth , Poole Councils were amalgamated to save back office costs and the savings go back to the Council tax payer i trust individuals to decide how to spend their money.
Councils always complain about so called "savage cuts" and yet can waste our money on surf reefs that do not work, IMAX Millions spent and still empty just to name two recent expensive white elephants .
No wonder there is such little faith in local democracy.
s-pb2
says...
10:56pm Mon 28 Jan 13
tramp_about_town wrote:Its true there are some amazing dedicated people who work for the council. Those who look after our disabled and those with learning difficulties, others who help those with alzheimers, and those who look after the disabled children of drug addicts, those who bury our loved ones. You make a good point, these peoples efforts make such a difference to peoples lives.
I think that all councils are amazing and the job they do is fantastic. They serve such deserving people and the public sector workers are also all really amazing. I think we should be looking at paying more tax so that these amazing people can all be recognised for their amazing work they do for all the deserving people that are unable to afford to pay in to the system. Wages need to be increased as well as pensions and also benefits. in fact everything needs to go up.....wages, pensions, benefits and tax....hazar hazar long live the amazing people. I feel so humbled to be surrounded by the amazing when all I can do is contribute.
dorsetred
says...
11:15pm Mon 28 Jan 13
The Liberal
says...
8:14am Tue 29 Jan 13
l'anglais wrote:So are you saying that no one in Dorset pays any income tax or VAT (nor any other taxes or duties paid to central government)?
Council Tax payers contribute about 20% to the annual budgets of your local councils.
So when you next see your bin being emptied, say a big thank you to those high earners from the Home Counties.
Income Tax and VAT pay for 4/5ths of your local services.
With such a low government grant, it's more like Poole residents are subsidising those in other parts of the UK.
The Liberal
says...
8:15am Tue 29 Jan 13
dorsetred wrote:No, they'd just claim that those people failed to understand the voting system – as was the case with the PCC elections.
All my live I have heard "they are all the same" that is the excuse for not voting, very valid it is too, but better would be to dis-qualify your ballot paper this has to be recorded and reported, if only the 80% of you nation wide that did not vote at the recent sham of democracy of the police nonsense had done just that all our corrupt politicians (and Wannabees) at every level,would pause for thought.
phonehome
says...
10:30am Tue 29 Jan 13
If they cannot find such a small saving then they need to make way for someone who can.
Householders have been making these sort of cuts for the last 5 years at least.
harrythered
says...
10:41am Tue 29 Jan 13
Why do we need seperate Bournemouth, Poole, Christchurch, East Dorset, New Forest councils as wel as all the local town councils. The admin costs, building costs and duplication of services is absolutely crazy. E Dorset and Christchurch have save £2.5M by amalgamating some services - How much could we save by combining the whole lot?
HRH of Boscombe
says...
11:47am Tue 29 Jan 13
rayc wrote:Unless they have a police man holding their hand they would be told to jog on quickly before they have a very bad day. Parking fines are easy because you have a number plate.
HRH of Boscombe wrote:I think you will find that these companies are working on behalf of the Council and the council have the power to put you in front of a Magistrate if you do not pay the Penalty Charge. It is similar to refusing to pay a council issued parking ticket.rayc wrote:On the same point though private companies have no way to enforce their fines even if they do find someone stupid enough to give them their details. . I would do it just to bait one of them to try. Unfortunately they know that too and will just pick easy targets.HRH of Boscombe wrote:Fair enough. The Magistrate's Association believes the situation is dangerous saying ""Private companies don't report to anybody, the public can't question it - there's very limited appeal provisions." Still if you do nothing wrong you'll have nothing to worry about. Just don't drop a pen by accident or let your toddler drop a crisp.rayc wrote: Don't worry, Councils have always found ways to get that little bit more by using the powers given to them by Central Government. The latest one for London Councils is Litter Fines. http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-england-lon don-21200058Have you seen the streets of Islington? Fair play to their Council.
aboobica
says...
12:22pm Tue 29 Jan 13
l'anglais
says...
12:54pm Tue 29 Jan 13
The Liberal wrote:In that case, when you've pulled out of Europe in a few years time.
l'anglais wrote:So are you saying that no one in Dorset pays any income tax or VAT (nor any other taxes or duties paid to central government)?
Council Tax payers contribute about 20% to the annual budgets of your local councils.
So when you next see your bin being emptied, say a big thank you to those high earners from the Home Counties.
Income Tax and VAT pay for 4/5ths of your local services.
With such a low government grant, it's more like Poole residents are subsidising those in other parts of the UK.
Why not pull out of the UK as well.
Dorset Independence Party!
or DIPPY
Martinesque
says...
4:18pm Tue 29 Jan 13
The Renegade Master wrote:Get a ticket did you? You should've stayed under your bridge with all the other trolls, the parking car doesn't work underwater.
Typical greedy Council, shafting it's residents out of every penny they can, while the fat cat Council hierarchy get rich at our expense. What new money making schemes do the powers that be have in store for us this year? Raise parking charges further? Paint more double yellow lines all over the place and buy a couple more parking cars? Encourage the local constabulary to forget catching criminals and concentrate their efforts on penalising the motorist for profit? Oh whoops, they've already done most of that. Oh well, I'm sure they'll think of something to keep their snouts in the trough.
s-pb2
says...
6:26pm Tue 29 Jan 13
phonehome wrote:They have been making cuts to frontline services all the while in order to be within budgets, but this time the costs of such services are far exceeding what Poole can afford. You cant cut it any less because then you start putting peoples lives at risk.
All Poole Council had to do was to introduce 1.95% of efficiency into their budget and we wouldn't have to pay anymore than last year.
If they cannot find such a small saving then they need to make way for someone who can.
Householders have been making these sort of cuts for the last 5 years at least.
rayc says...
11:58am Mon 28 Jan 13
The latest one for London Councils is Litter Fines. http://www.bbc.co.uk
/news/uk-england-lon
don-21200058