Sadness at loss of ancient tree
11:30am Tuesday 13th March 2007
Comments (116) Have your say »
A 200-YEAR-OLD tree at the centre of worship by druids and witches has been chopped down to size after it became diseased.
The 80ft beech at Winterbourne Abbas has been reduced to a 10-metre stump by English Heritage because of fears it would die and fall over.
The tree has become a dominant feature at the site, famous for the ancient stone circle standing beneath its branches.
Now the Dolmen Grove, a Weymouth-based druid group, will perform a 're- balancing' ritual in mourning for the loss of the tree and to mark a new beginning for their holy site.
The Arch Druid of the Dolmen Grove, antique-dealer Chris Walsh, will lead the peaceful service and hopes many of the sect's 250 witches, druids, shamans and pagans will attend.
He said: "The tree is part of the history of the area and it was a surprise when English Heritage told us it would have to be cut.
"Lots of local people as well as druids and witches come here and it will be a shock for them to see the tree now because it was such a focal point.
"Its big branches have certainly been useful to us when we have been out here in the rain.
"But I think that many trees have come and gone in the 3,000 to 4,000 years the stones have been here and we accept there has to be change and renewal in nature."
The Arch Druid said he and the Stag Lord would lead the re-balancing ritual in the next few weeks. He said: "We believe in the spirits of the land and we want to honour the tree by putting it in peace with the elements - a re-balancing of nature's forces.
"We cannot be certain but we believe that ancient people met and worshipped at the stones very much as we do today.
"We're very respectful of the land and anyone who visits the stones and we like to see them maintained."
Chris Bally, regional landscape manager for English Heritage said a number of local people had made complaints about the tree being cut.
Safety But he said English Heritage had acted in the interests of public safety and to protect the stones.
He said: "The tree is infected with the fungus Meripilus giganteus (also commonly known as Polypore) which causes decay to the underground roots of mature beech.
"Once the fungus is established, the tree loses support from its roots and will eventually blow over.
"We are very sad at having to lose the tree but due to the proximity of the A35, the tree had to be made safe before it fell."
Your Say YourThisisdorset
Mark, the Net says...
2:34pm Tue 13 Mar 07
The only sad thing about this article are the people that need a ritual when a tree gets chopped.
Get over it and get a life!
Tim, says...
3:09pm Tue 13 Mar 07
On a more positive note, however...I wonder if English Heritage would allow the Duids to pant a new tree here. Prehaps a nice English Oak or omething. Maybe a Yew.
Albo, Wyke Regis says...
3:14pm Tue 13 Mar 07
I'm sure these people hear witch-burning and turning-people-into-a-newt jokes every day of their lives. I dare say they crack a few themselves.
If you can't laugh at the world, it's hardly worth bothering, is it?
Midnighter, Weymouth says...
3:56pm Tue 13 Mar 07
That is the real sadness.
But believe me when I say that no one has a better sense of humour than the Dolmen Grove, a truly wonderful group of human beings, amongst whose ranks I feel honoured to be numbered. It is also the home of THE DOLMEN, the best Celtic Folk band in the world.
Check them out here.
http://www.dolmengrove.co.uk/home.htm
sophie, says...
4:04pm Tue 13 Mar 07
Midnighter, Weymouth says...
4:16pm Tue 13 Mar 07
Or more to the point, would you be allowed to without the police knocking on your door ?
Anyway, if this type of understanding is not in a person, it probably never will be.
Have a good day. ;-)
Mark, the Net says...
4:26pm Tue 13 Mar 07
I am sure that even when we did not have the understanding of the world that we do today the majority of the populace did not spend most nights dancing around trees!
I have just had a look at the web page and have the following points:-
Do you ever update your webpage? (as the Winter Solstice 2006 is long gone)
Are the followers of your 'religion' allowed to use computers? I mean they are not made of trees!
You really need to use a spell checker as your webpage!
Mark, the Net says...
4:32pm Tue 13 Mar 07
It seems that you are not aware that there is such a thing as free speech. I might not agree with you and you might not agree with me but we both have the right to say what we think (and that goes for talking about Islam too).
Obviously you cannot cope with anyone that does not think exactly the same way that you do, which seems strange as if you had real faith in your 'religion' then that faith would be enough and you would not care what others think.
You really need to learn to be more tolerant of other people and their views.
Midnighter, Weymouth says...
4:46pm Tue 13 Mar 07
Nope, I don't remember anything like that happening yesterday.
Your ignorance really does know no bounds Mark.
As for the Winter Solstice,well it was the last big important ritual to be celebrated and is of interest to other pagans.
Yes, you are correct in just one thing .... computers are not made of trees. There's no fooling you is there mate. ;-)
And no, I don't care what you think at all. But ignorance is always noted.
Bris, Dorset says...
5:03pm Tue 13 Mar 07
silvrwlf, US says...
5:23pm Tue 13 Mar 07
And I have to agree with Tim. When I first read the article, my first thought was, 'I wonder if they would allow them to plant a new tree to be dedicated to the site - endings and beginnings. Best wishes to you all.
And Mark, the fact that you made the statement that the only sad thing about this article is that these people are mourning the loss of part of their religious space - much as Christians would if something happened to a church - and that they need to get over it says that you are the one who needs to be more tolerant. Or at least have more tact than to be a jerk on a public forum. But then, you wouldn't get the attention, would you? Here's a cookie to make you feel better.
Gypsy, Weymouth says...
5:36pm Tue 13 Mar 07
Also I dare say that you hold rituals yourself for many events whether thats is what you call it or not. Did you have pancakes the other week? Did you celebrate Christmas?
And on a separate note It is sad to see such magnificent trees lost, I haven't been up since the tree was cut but the trees used to create the most amazing atmosphere.
Vulpine, Dorset says...
5:49pm Tue 13 Mar 07
Matthew Hopkins Society, Wherever we find you! says...
6:28pm Tue 13 Mar 07
we also have the right to not be harassed or persecuted for our beliefs.
Personally I'm all for persecuting people who wear leather helmets sporting antler horns.
Jedi Knight, The Universe says...
6:57pm Tue 13 Mar 07
May the force be with you.
Matthew Hopkins Society, says...
7:24pm Tue 13 Mar 07
Bill, Dorset says...
7:34pm Tue 13 Mar 07
These forums are for grown ups with constructive comments.
On another note its good that there are those who are keeping the traditions of this land and I for one was very sad to see the old tree chopped.
Midnighter, Weymouth says...
7:40pm Tue 13 Mar 07
Ah well, whatever .... not everyone is fortunate enough to tread the path.
Bright Blessings.
Bill, dorset says...
7:51pm Tue 13 Mar 07
Untill then I would sugest get out more.
Try not to show how naive you are by using the code of silence perhaps.
wykewitch, Weymouth says...
7:52pm Tue 13 Mar 07
As for Mark... Well, I have to admit for some strange reason about 50% of pagans I know are Dyslexic, (me included sorry)! Other than that I will ignore him, its more than he deserves.
Its lovely to see that the work us Domineers are doing is appreciated, t accepted, or at least in some way understood by some enlightened individuals. :D
Anyone wanting a witch hunt bring your hounds to Weymouth, and be sure youre not biting off more than you can chew.
Even brighter blessings, says...
7:59pm Tue 13 Mar 07
.... not everyone is fortunate enough to tread the path.
You'll know when Mark or anyone else from the Council treads "the path" because there will be lots of sticky labels everywhere warning dog owners that they risk a fine if their dog fouls the footway.
wykewitch, Weymouth says...
8:53pm Tue 13 Mar 07
As for Mark... Well, I have to admit for some strange reason about 50% of pagans I know are Dyslexic, (me included sorry)! Other than that I will ignore him, its more than he deserves.
Its lovely to see that the work us Domineers are doing is appreciated, t accepted, or at least in some way understood by some enlightened individuals. :D
Anyone wanting a witch hunt bring your hounds to Weymouth, and be sure youre not biting off more than you can chew.
Grim, Dorset says...
9:18pm Tue 13 Mar 07
The Honouring of Nature and the world we live in.
Given that the greatest threat to the world we live in is the actions of Humans surly we need more people who are willing to care.
This is the only course for our continued exsistance.
As to the costums, have you seen your local Vicar at weddings and funerals.
Dove, Weymouth says...
9:50pm Tue 13 Mar 07
The Dolmen, Weymouth says...
10:46pm Tue 13 Mar 07
Mark wrote:Is this article real?
Is this article for real? The only sad thing about this article are the people that need a ritual when a tree gets chopped. Get over it and get a life!
Yes it is Mark and so are we.
Do You have a problem with people who choose to recognise British traditions?
Because thats what we do.
We also hold what is called a Moot( a gathering of free thinking people, Pagans Witches Druids etc..) at the Marquis of Granby every 2nd Wednesday of the month
why dont you come and tell us in person why you think us British people to be so Sad.
As it happens that tree has been part of that circle for hundreds of years and has a lot of old memory's, Dolmen Grove have performed rituals there for at least thirty years.
We have held funeral services and handfastings under those dear old branches.
We respect and endeavour to live at one with nature, this does not make us sad.
Or do you have a problem with that?.
The staghorns that are worn dates back in the history and traditions of this country thousands of years, and have always been worn by Witches and Druids.
They represent the Horned God (you will probably relate this to the Devil Mark.) hence why you have the story of Hern the Hunter amongst other aspects.
The Balanceing ritual that will be held in the Stones is open for anyone who wish to attend,all will be explained on the day to those who are there.
details will be given on the dolmengrove.co.uk website.
Mark its very easy to condemn from an article what you do not understand,you have no knowledge of the spirit of this land or you would not.
It is better to be thought a fool than open your mouth and leave no doubt.
Lets hope that when you lose something that is dear to you Mark, you will heed your own words,
'get over it and get a life.'
Rowan, Weymouth says...
11:48pm Tue 13 Mar 07
Lets hope that when you lose something that is dear to you Mark, you will heed your own words,
'get over it and get a life.'
Hear hear!
Blessed Be
Midnighter, Weymouth says...
11:53pm Tue 13 Mar 07
AL44, Weymouth says...
11:09am Wed 14 Mar 07
Midnighter, Weymouth says...
11:17am Wed 14 Mar 07
The circle used to be hidden and secluded, but now the tree has been butchered, I fear that the vandals and their spray-paint won't be too far behind. :(
AL44, says...
12:35pm Wed 14 Mar 07
Midnighter, Weymouth says...
12:47pm Wed 14 Mar 07
I'm not saying the tree hasn't got a disease, it's just such a big shock to see it now compared to what it once was.
Hopefully in time, it will grow again.
AL44, Weymouth says...
12:53pm Wed 14 Mar 07
Hellas32, Dacula, Georgia U.S.A says...
1:06pm Wed 14 Mar 07
Admittedly, I do not know much about this site refered to in the article, but it sounds beautiful. I seems a shame that such a grand old nature spirit had to be cut so drastically. Hopefully AL44 will prove right, and it will grow back more grand and beautiful than ever.
I'm curious about this rebalancing ritual. I know if I have to severely cut one of my trees, I alway make many offerings of thanks for its service and wish it well for a good regrowth. Is this something similiar?
I find it interesting that you have to deal with your rednecks across the pond as well.
Mark, you belong here in Georgia with the rest of the uncouth inbreads that populate my state. Were use to your kind out here.
ian, says...
1:21pm Wed 14 Mar 07
Terry, says...
1:36pm Wed 14 Mar 07
ian, says...
2:24pm Wed 14 Mar 07
"would you or he dare to voice the same sentiments about Islam in the present climate ?"
Perhaps this is a matter we should be paying a lot more attention to in this country (snd in our press) rather than making comments and mocking our own ENGLISH minority traditions.
eriu, says...
2:25pm Wed 14 Mar 07
What difference does it really make to you that people are paying respect to nature, are you really that small minded that you have to slate people for who they are, nobody has hurt anyone or caused any problems so why are you so upset? As for feeling the need to persecute 'people who dress up and wear antlers and headgear'
GET A LIFE yourselves
and stop being such pig headed idiots.
sophie, says...
3:19pm Wed 14 Mar 07
silvrwlf, US says...
4:23pm Wed 14 Mar 07
ian wrote:If it's so sad and there are so much better things, then why did you post here? At least most of the people posting here are saying something worth reading.
Isn't it sad to see that some choose to finally put hand to keyboard over such a matter rather than comment on more serious and pressing issues.
What happened? Couldn't understand the "more serious and pressing issues" so you had to make a stink here. You're almost as bad as Mark. Lucky for you, it's almost. You should have a cookie, too.
Vulpine, Dorset says...
5:08pm Wed 14 Mar 07
ian, says...
5:59pm Wed 14 Mar 07
Matthew Hopkins Society, says...
7:43pm Wed 14 Mar 07
1) The population was severely diminishing by the second generation.
2) The extremely-high pitched screaming became annoying to the local residents, and it was decided to use older people for the burning process.
The next-most-useless group to society, was that of the witches. All they did was cast pointless spells, and do un-needed things, such as brewing healing potions. One problem that arose, however, was that the children were easily accessible, whereas witches would have to be caught before being exploited. It was not unusual during these times to find groups of people "witch hunting". This became a common pasttime and sport for many of the villagers. Groups of men (and sometimes women) would sneak into witch-warrens, or witch-towers, and capture the sleeping witches. It was soon decided that younger people, who were more energetic, thereby had more energy, therfore would burn hotter, which led to the custom of taking the youngest of the witches (yet old enough for a slightly deeper voice). The young girls were thrown in cages, taken back to the village, and burnt, often to cook steak (see "persecution" for relevance).
Whiches, Wiches, Wytches and Witches
"Whiches" are questions, "wiches" are edibles and "Witches" are magical humanoids. They are absolutely not interchangable despite the the machinations of the orthographically lazy. The term "Wytches" is merely a gender-neutral spelling of "Witches" that arose in the late 1970s when the feminist movement caught on amongst the witch population in the occident.
Persecution
Witches, as a minority were famously discriminated against in nearly all cultures (with the exception of Nigerian culture and fans of the television series Andromeda). In medievel England witches were prosecuted legally and usually forced to eat burnt steak if found guilty. Though not technically lethal in in doses below 560 kilograms, burnt steak is known for it's carcinogenic properties and doesn't taste as well as a properly cooked steak. During the bloody reign of King Edward the one and only, witches were even refused a glass of water to wash the burnt steak down with.
In today's world, witches are usually accepted as equal members of society. The Salem Witch Triathlon is a biannual witch-only sporting event held in Salem, Sweden, to promote Witch awareness to the general public.
Witch Tests
* Burn the supposed witch at the stake. If she burns, she is a witch. Humans cannot burn.
* Throw the supposed witch into a pond. If she drowns, she is a human, if she floats she is a witch.
* Pour a bucket of sulphuric acid over a suspected witch's head. If her hair turns red, she is a witch.
* Pour a bucket of sulphuric acid over a suspected witch's head. If she develops a welt, she is a witch.
* Use "I" instead of "me" (or visa versa) around the supposed witch. If she corrects you, she is a witch.
* Ask the witch if she knows anyone who is a witch if she says no she is a witch, if she says yes she is also a witch.
* If you ask her to sleep with you and she says no she is a witch.
silvrwlf, US says...
8:04pm Wed 14 Mar 07
Making assumptions about people who you only have contact with on a single comment board makes you look more ridiculous than your first post. No more cookies for you.
ian, says...
9:08pm Wed 14 Mar 07
silvrwlf, US says...
9:55pm Wed 14 Mar 07
ian, says...
11:01pm Wed 14 Mar 07
wykewitch, Weymouth says...
12:12am Thu 15 Mar 07
Vulpine, Dorset says...
7:37am Thu 15 Mar 07
StormRavn, US-Arizona says...
7:53am Thu 15 Mar 07
Blessings to all
ian, says...
11:45am Thu 15 Mar 07
For that you deserve this !!
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/South/04/21/offbeat.big.cookie/index.html
Midnighter, Weymouth says...
12:55pm Thu 15 Mar 07
Silvrwlf, I have a friend coming over here to stay in a few weeks and he's from Georgia too.
Guess what ? Mark from the council didn't turn up at our meeting last night. :-)
The Dolmen, Weymouth says...
1:29pm Thu 15 Mar 07
And was it you that left a dead bird with a noose around its neck on the windscreen with die witch typed on a piece of paper stuck to it?
Many a sicko hides behind a smile,Mathew Hopkins Society.
We feel very suspicious of you.
Very Suspicious
Midnighter, Weymouth says...
2:06pm Thu 15 Mar 07
They're probably from some ultra-christian group with so little belief in their own arguement that they have to resort to what they would see as scare tactics.
They don't know us very well do they. ;-)
silvrwlf, US says...
2:29pm Thu 15 Mar 07
Oh, and Ian, no I didn't resort to sarcasm, it's just a natural gift. I was trying to make a point, but - obviously - you missed it. I'm not going to argue with you.
Dolmen Grove, you will be in my prayers and I will have my friends put you in theirs as well. No one should put up with the harassment that you've endured, but they will get theirs. If it was a Christian group, I'd love to be a fly on a cloud when they get to the gates. On that day, they'll know how it feels to be treated like they don't belong. Only difference - they really won't.
Brightest blessings to you all.
Matthew Hopkins Society, says...
2:55pm Thu 15 Mar 07
The Dolmen wrote:That anyone should actually go out of their way to hassle you seems rather silly - probably some of the rednecks referred to by a poster above. For myself I merely think you revel in the idea of being a persecuted victim for your beliefs. A persecution fantasy cultivated to hark back to an arcane world view when people had a genuine belief in and feared the magical. Why anyone now would find your beliefs threatening I cant imagine, although I dare say it might give you a vicarious thrill and in so doing augment the mystique you imagine surrounds you if you suppose that they just might.
Joking aside Were you the one responsible for spraying Anti Witch coments on our van.MATHEW HOPKINS SOCIETY?
And was it you that left a dead bird with a noose around its neck on the windscreen with die witch typed on a piece of paper stuck to it?
Many a sicko hides behind a smile,Mathew Hopkins Society.
We feel very suspicious of you.
Very Suspicious
The Dolmen, says...
3:08pm Thu 15 Mar 07
You have answered exactly the way we thought you would.
You do not understand anything about us Witches Druids etc..
But you help us understand alot about You.
Were you part of the lot that only a couple of months ago made national press by attacking pagans in Glastonbury by any chance.
Dont avoid the question by being a smart Alec.
silvrwlf, US says...
3:10pm Thu 15 Mar 07
To pretend that harassment doesn't exsist or that it's a "persecution fantasy" makes you look unintelligent or guilty. With the hateful things you've said on this bored, I'd say guilty. You've been harassing here, why wouldn't you do it in real life?
Don't get high and mighty when their suspision of you is well founded - and I only know of what you've said on here! But by coming to this board and making the comments that you did, that is "go our of way to hassle " How odd, how odd.
Matthew Hopkins Society, says...
3:30pm Thu 15 Mar 07
Were you part of the lot that only a couple of months ago made national press by attacking pagans in Glastonbury by any chance.
Dont avoid the question by being a smart Alec.
With the hateful things you've said on this bored, I'd say guilty.
Blimey; what is this a Witch trial??
Midnighter, Weymouth says...
3:39pm Thu 15 Mar 07
Matthew Hopkins Society wrote:Nah, sounds like some idiot with more time on their hands than is good for them and who has decided to fill it up with making inane comments about a group of well-meaning and singular people who have forgotten more than you'll ever know.
Were you part of the lot that only a couple of months ago made national press by attacking pagans in Glastonbury by any chance. Dont avoid the question by being a smart Alec.With the hateful things you've said on this bored, I'd say guilty.Blimey; what is this a Witch trial??
Sally, says...
4:37pm Thu 15 Mar 07
with more time on their hands than is good for them
This point of view seems to be come up quite often on these comment boards. I wonder why the people posting it think their own time has been so much better employed than that of others?
Matthew Hopkins Society, says...
5:08pm Thu 15 Mar 07
For most of us it's hardly time consuming, merely an interlude of light entertainment.
Moonlight, Weymouth says...
5:15pm Thu 15 Mar 07
Even the witches persecuted for being who they were in history often did a lot of good. Where do you think many of the basis for modern medicines come from?
If you're in Dorset then you are surrounded by ancient sites, sites of pagan rituals and the worship of nature. I suggest you be careful of those ley lines while out on your witch hunts though.
Blessings to all who have the enlightenment of tolerance and acceptance. :)
Matthew Hopkins Society, says...
5:26pm Thu 15 Mar 07
PS I shouldn't carry on assuming you speak for anyone but yourself, I'm sure there are a few people who wouldn't thank you for it.
silvrwlf, US says...
5:41pm Thu 15 Mar 07
Yes, even you, Matthew Hopkins Society. May you be blessed with an opening of your mind.
Matthew Hopkins Society, says...
5:57pm Thu 15 Mar 07
Don't flatter yourself, silly. You don't know anything about me.
Making assumptions about people who you only have contact with on a single comment board makes you look more ridiculous than your first post. No more cookies for you.
You're certainly not averse to digging yourself in deeper
Dove, Weymouth says...
10:51pm Thu 15 Mar 07
Gypsy, Weymouth says...
11:03pm Thu 15 Mar 07
left a dead bird with a noose around its neck on the windscreen with die witch typed on a piece of paper stuck to it?
This is sickening, truly vulgar, how can anyone do this?
Why can't people accept others for the way they are?
Why has a simple article about the loss of a tree special to some turned into a mass of hate?
Unbalanced Mower, Garden Shed says...
11:56pm Thu 15 Mar 07
The Dolmen, says...
1:55am Fri 16 Mar 07
Quite often they sit back in denial of their actions and what's worse they even try to be witty,
which makes them either blind or just plain stupid. Maybe they are scared to face personal issues they have managed to manifest.
If these ridiculers ever took the time to study or even discover a little of what Pagans are about before speaking, it would be something to behold.
But quite often they just go straight in knuckles draging by their sides unknowing that we are the oldest religion in this country and also the first to establish schools of education in this country.
Our traditions have survived down through centuries against all odds, persecution invasion and individuals who have no pride in their heritage.
The Dolmen Grove welcome all Druids Witches Pagans Heathens,and peace loving people who may not go under a title but share the same values.
We celebrate life, Nature, our Earth and our Gods.
If we wish to perform a ritual for any of these reasons be it to balance an energy or to welcome the seasons we shall, just like our people have done over thousands of years and will continue to do so.
Bright Blessings to you Silverwolf if ever you come over the pond you will be welcome.
Midnighter, Weymouth says...
8:51am Fri 16 Mar 07
C:Documents and SettingsS VineDesktopYouTube - Dolmenisation.mht
Midnighter, Weymouth says...
8:54am Fri 16 Mar 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cImlm3TlDiY
wyrdwych, says...
8:59am Fri 16 Mar 07
wykewitch, Wyemouth says...
11:17am Fri 16 Mar 07
Sally wrote:Did you see what was written Sally? It was mildly funny stuff which could be interpreted as threatening, with no perpose or real comment on the artical. That was why the above comment was made.
with more time on their hands than is good for themThis point of view seems to be come up quite often on these comment boards. I wonder why the people posting it think their own time has been so much better employed than that of others?
Common Sense man, dorset says...
1:07pm Fri 16 Mar 07
Lets talk about what the church is doing not talk about some misguided souls.
Not get a life so much as get a religion.
Harry, Missouri, USA says...
1:39pm Fri 16 Mar 07
I'm sorry that such a wonderful old tree had to be cut.
I don't know how much of the tree was cut or How the Disease effects it. But It may regrow until the disease kills it.
Would it be possible to take a cutting and start a new tree from the Old one? You'll have to take a few cuttings so that you'll have multiple choices to pick the best growing one from.
Then in a sense You'll be continuing the tradition of worship around the same tree.
Isn't this how the Druids maintained their Groves And started New ones?
Lorn, says...
1:50pm Fri 16 Mar 07
Unbalanced Mower wrote:I only have a small allotment but each year my harvest is plentiful. I always try to rebalance for what I take from the earth. We sow the seed to grow the seed but we must give thanks for Natures bounty.
It might seem strange, but it is a true and salutary tale: I have been cutting my lawn for the last twenty years and have never had a re-balancing ceremony; now my lawn is all lumpy.
Dont give up hope on your lawn but give thanks and I am sure youll find that your garden improves.
Midnighter, Weymouth says...
2:03pm Fri 16 Mar 07
Common Sense man wrote:If you're going to call yourself by that user-name, at least try to resemble it in some samall way.
We are a Christian Country remember the vast amount of the population are christian why give such publicity to a minority such as this? Lets talk about what the church is doing not talk about some misguided souls. Not get a life so much as get a religion.
The national religion of the UK may well be Christianity, but the majority of folk in it adhere to no religion at all. just look at church attendances for proof.
Who are you calling 'misguided' you pompous cretin ? I have more sense in my scrotum than you have in your head.
Your church does nothing but what it has always done. Try to control the feeble-minded, non thinkers and the scared, whilst squeezing as many hypocritical slips into a day as possible.
Sally, says...
2:19pm Fri 16 Mar 07
Who are you calling 'misguided' you pompous cretin ? I have more sense in my scrotum than you have in your head.
Your church does nothing but what it has always done. Try to control the feeble-minded, non thinkers and the scared, whilst squeezing as many hypocritical slips into a day as possible.
Midnighter, you seem very intolerant of others. The poster may not understand your point of view but he didn't resort to personal insults. Why must you?
Lorn, says...
2:40pm Fri 16 Mar 07
Midnighter, Weymouth says...
2:54pm Fri 16 Mar 07
Sally wrote:Calling someone 'misguided' IS a personal insult. I'm old enough and have enough experience of the world, to make an informed choice for myself and don't need telling that I've got it wrong by a total stranger.
Who are you calling 'misguided' you pompous cretin ? I have more sense in my scrotum than you have in your head. Your church does nothing but what it has always done. Try to control the feeble-minded, non thinkers and the scared, whilst squeezing as many hypocritical slips into a day as possible.Midnighter, you seem very intolerant of others. The poster may not understand your point of view but he didn't resort to personal insults. Why must you?
Sally, says...
3:20pm Fri 16 Mar 07
Midnighter, Weymouth says...
3:33pm Fri 16 Mar 07
If you think we are all, to coin a phrase, 'tree-hugging' hippies, then I think you will be disappointed madam.
Back in the real world, people disagree and on occasion, slightly stronger words are used. If this upsets you as much as it seems to, then may I suggest that you do not frequent message boards, forums and the like, because time and again I'm afraid, you are going to come up against folk who are going to be prepared to fight their corner.
I am one such person and may I remind you that the first insults were proffered bt non-pagan people.
Not to respond to this bullying is not in my and many others' make up.
I make no apology for having a bit of spirit.
Midnighter, says...
3:58pm Fri 16 Mar 07
I'm sure you'll be able to do this as you seem so sure of your case.
Sally, says...
4:34pm Fri 16 Mar 07
Back in the real world, people disagree and on occasion, slightly stronger words are used. If this upsets you as much as it seems to, then may I suggest that you do not frequent message boards, forums and the like, because time and again I'm afraid, you are going to come up against folk who are going to be prepared to fight their corner.
I think I'd prefer to take your advice above and avoid this worldly fighting.
ian, says...
4:51pm Fri 16 Mar 07
Funny how they are selective on what stories can be commented on too.
If you want to make longer comments try the message board that was suggested in another thread:
http://www.weymouth-town.net/viewforum.php?f=6
Common Sense Man, dorset says...
4:51pm Fri 16 Mar 07
Scollopax, says...
4:54pm Fri 16 Mar 07
Midnighter, Weymouth says...
5:09pm Fri 16 Mar 07
Common Sense Man wrote:Well well, are we seeing the true face of christianity and any other organised eastern religion of that ilk ?
What is being reprsented here? a pagan religion or just a few misguided souls, i am a christian and believe in god what does a pagan belive in then ?as i have not ever heard a so called pagan yet who has the same belief as another so called pagan, i love the country side that surrounds us does that make me pagan? but really what on earth is going on here, a seemingly large organised pagan group i have never heard of before, you sure you are not all from a pantomine with nothing better to do?
Deride anyone else's beliefs that you do not understand to shore up your own shakey misconceptions and fears why don't you.
If you'd like to meet us Common Sense Man, just say so, we don't bite and you may, if you approach us with an open mind and heart, learn something you didn't know.
Unless of course you are one of those christians who labour under the misaprehension that Pagans are all devil worshippers. I'm afraid that Lucifer was your people's invention, not ours. We don't really recognise him.
Our religion has been around for at least 15,000 years. Yours, for about two thousand. Islam for about 1600 years.
Just because you've never heard of the Dolmen Grove means very little, but I can assure you that we probably have more people at our gatherings than most churches see on a Sunday morning.
Tis true that Pagans have differing beliefs, or at least differing ways of worshipping, (following the path) but the collective mentality is very similar and resolute.
By all means, bite the bullet and suggest a meeting. You have nothing to fear from us. ;-)
The Dolmen, weymouth says...
5:54pm Fri 16 Mar 07
Misguided souls?
This is the type of comment that will cause a bit of high spiritness.
Tis not a war we seek but to be accepted as a religion that has the same rights and protection as any other, like we have pointed out we are the oldest religion in this country and it was by force that it was stripped from the people of this land and they were made worship a foreign Religion.
We as every generation for thousands of years keep the old path going.
Our Gods and Goddesses are in all nature, earth, life,
Though it should be remembered We are not Boot lickers and we are not here as whiping boys for the enjoyment of the frustrated.
If someone has a point or question ask nicely and the reply will be nice.
How do those famous words ring.
'you will reep what you sow'
This article was about an old 200 year tree being felled at a Sacred Stone Circle.
It comes to something when the oldest practised religion in the country is mocked for recognising the event.
MartinH, says...
6:07pm Fri 16 Mar 07
Tis not a war we seek but to be accepted as a religion that has the same rights and protection as any other, like we have pointed out we are the oldest religion in this country and it was by force that it was stripped from the people of this land and they were made worship a foreign Religion.
We as every generation for thousands of years keep the old path going.
Is there any significance to the age of a religion? Surely the intention of any religion is to articulate a system of metaphysical beliefs taken to be true irrespective of the age of the religion. Is there then an idea within Neopaganism that people in a long distant past were more likely to have been closer to this truth than those in more recent times?
Midnighter, Weymouth says...
6:29pm Fri 16 Mar 07
"'Repent while you still have the chance'
Would any of you people give this statement any thought?
Because I sure would..."
It was posted by someone calling themselves ,'In the name of the Devil'
And you wonder why we react.
MartinH, says...
6:56pm Fri 16 Mar 07
If someone has a point or question ask nicely and the reply will be nice.
Still awaiting an answer to my first question above but I'll ask these too and then perhaps you'll reply to them all at once.
The Pagan tradition has, as I expect youll acknowledge, been broken and interrupted several times through history. Are your current worshipping practices designed foremost to put you into a closer historical relationship with the traditions earliest practitioners and through the understanding of them bring you closer to the symbols which they venerated? Or do you suppose yourselves to have the same close proximity as the early practitioners to those symbols of veneration through your current practices?
The Dolmen, says...
7:25pm Fri 16 Mar 07
quote MartinH.
Yes I believe so,I am not personaly overstruck on religions that have evolved over the past 2000 years.
They do seem to be detached from Mother Nature amongst a few other things we wont mention.
The Pagan religion has never been broken or interupted over history.
It has evolved but its foundation remains.
That which we practice today keeps us in touch with our Gods and nature which ever way we see them.
MartinH, says...
8:42pm Fri 16 Mar 07
As far as I can gather the general consensus seems to be that Paganism as practiced today isn't clearly founded in the original traditions. This is why I asked about the significance of the age of a religion. It seems to me Paganism as you would call it, or Neopaganism I would see it, would be not be at all diminished by acknowledging the interruption to its history, especially if in doing so it sought to greater strengthen its relationship with it historical forbears.
wykewitch, Weymouth says...
10:51pm Fri 16 Mar 07
Common Sense Man, dorset says...
10:56pm Fri 16 Mar 07
the original story is about a tree, and a bunch of misguided souls upset about it, is this the same for every tree that gets cut down? you cant have time to do any work can you? or perhaps thats just it they dont work?
The Dolmen, Weymouth says...
11:10pm Fri 16 Mar 07
MartinH wrote:I believe the general consensus is that Paganism today is founded in the original traditions.
Thanks for the reply. As far as I can gather the general consensus seems to be that Paganism as practiced today isn't clearly founded in the original traditions. This is why I asked about the significance of the age of a religion. It seems to me Paganism as you would call it, or Neopaganism I would see it, would be not be at all diminished by acknowledging the interruption to its history, especially if in doing so it sought to greater strengthen its relationship with it historical forbears.
Which is obvious if studied.
The Dolmen, says...
11:25pm Fri 16 Mar 07
Common Sense Man wrote:Mr Common Sense Man.
progression that could be taken as learning and improving on what our forfathers have done. We have moved on from thousands of years ago, why not appreciate what was done then but then lets get real and live life as it is today, we have progressed into Christianity, one God. the original story is about a tree, and a bunch of misguided souls upset about it, is this the same for every tree that gets cut down? you cant have time to do any work can you? or perhaps thats just it they dont work?
I think you are just looking for a row.
You entirely miss the point about the tree which does not suprise us at all.
After all you probably totaly misunderstand the story of the tree in the Garden of eden.
Go back and read the article and post again have a look at some history books and learn a bit about this beautiful county,
Seek a bit of knowledge about ancient monuments and perhaps do a bit of research in to the abuse that much of them get.
Then ask yourself why we in this country still hold with the pagan tradition of having a christmas tree and a yule log.
Why the green man is in some old church's.
What the story of Hern the Hunter is really about and then come back here with something constructive to argue with.
Now go on you have lots to do.
Midnighter, Weymouth says...
11:33pm Fri 16 Mar 07
Common Sense Man wrote:The significance of that particular tree (if you had bothered to read the original article properly) is that it stands on the edge of a sacred stone circle.
progression that could be taken as learning and improving on what our forfathers have done. We have moved on from thousands of years ago, why not appreciate what was done then but then lets get real and live life as it is today, we have progressed into Christianity, one God. the original story is about a tree, and a bunch of misguided souls upset about it, is this the same for every tree that gets cut down? you cant have time to do any work can you? or perhaps thats just it they dont work?
The circle, which is very sacred to us as pagans, is a temple and could be as much as 3,500 years old or even older. The tree, though a relative newcomer to the environment of the circle, has still borne witness to many pagan rituals in its 200 years of life and for the last 30 years, from The Dolmen Grove itself.
In other words, it has soaked up a lot of energy and is revered by us, not unlike the tree at Glastonbury that supposedly sprung from the staff of one of your chaps.
Not so very different are we ? You revere trees, so do we. You have temples, so do we.
We love our heritage and I assume that you do to.
Moonlight, Weymouth says...
1:15am Sat 17 Mar 07
Grim, Dorset says...
2:57am Sat 17 Mar 07
I welcome intelligent debate regarding my believes and express as clearly as I can the way I feel.
I do not ask anyone to change the way they believe but ask them to respect my views as I respect theirs.
My church is in a grove of trees, By a lake or in a stone circle that has stood for thousands of years and was here be fore Churches.
Why should I have to do that in secret???
Evert week Christian's, Sikhs Muslims Jews Buddhists and others attend their places of worship freely. This can be reported in the local papers with out comment.
All I ask is the same consideration and respect of my religious freedom.
The Dolmen, Weymouth says...
11:04am Sat 17 Mar 07
Its funny how know one ever ridicules the likes of Royalty or politicians etc...when they plant a tree to mark an occasion.
MartinH, says...
11:18am Sat 17 Mar 07
wykewitch wrote:Interesting; thank you for that Wykewitch. Similarly during the Medieval period what was taken to be Platonic and Aristotelian thought transpired to be an adumbrated Latinisation (by monks) of Arabic translations of the texts credited to these philosophers. Once this was acknowledged during the Renaissance through the discovery of earlier more reliable sources the view of these and other Greek thinkers was revised .
It is very hard to say how old some pagan groups are because up untill the 1950s practicing witchcraft was illegal and so done entirley in secret. Ancient gods and goddesses were well described (thanks goes to the christian monks who wrote things down in early times), and by honoring Them, and ancient sites, we are connected to our ancient Pagan foundations.
Your relationship to the earliest practice is through the ancient sites but it seems your relationship to them, similar to that of medieval Europe to the Greeks is through uncertain sources. Hence my enquiry as to whether your current practices attempts to bring you into a closer relationship with the earliest practitioner to inform your relationship with those sites and their significance.
Midnighter, Weymouth says...
12:01pm Sat 17 Mar 07
How close to original doctrine and practice do you imagine the modern church in all its many guises to be ?
The Dolmen, says...
12:33pm Sat 17 Mar 07
Quote MartinH
We are connected by sharing the same religion as early practioners.
Our current practices connect us to the spirits of the land.
As it did our ancestors and has always done.
I beleive Wykewitch refers not to the known works as you have stated but to the text of the likes of the book of Ballymote.
Correct me If I am mistaken.
The Dolmen, says...
3:36pm Sat 17 Mar 07
It will be loud with drums and pipes however peaceful and respective and the ritual that will be performed will be Pagan.
Calling for world peace. All so we wish to highlight that Stone Henge is a runner to be voted as one of the new 7 wonders of the world, we encourage everyone to visit the site and get voting because we are dropping further down the line.
MartinH, says...
8:16pm Sat 17 Mar 07
Midnighter wrote:Im not at all sure why you think I might be an appropriate commentator on Christian doctrine. If I were to speculate on the proximity of any of the modern Christian churches to early doctrine and practice that certainly would be largely an act of the imagination. Although I gather from the few people I have met from the Eastern Orthodox Church that it pays great attention to the early Church Fathers with regard to doctrine (perhaps more than the Western Churches?). Im sure a receptive Christian theologian could shed some light on the accuracy of this assertion and on your question above
Hello MartinH. ;-)
How close to original doctrine and practice do you imagine the modern church in all its many guises to be ?
Midnighter, Weymouth says...
9:12pm Sat 17 Mar 07
This not being so, could you then enlighten us as to the reasons for your very particular and reasonably articulate questioning of our beliefs please ?
MartinH, says...
12:00am Sun 18 Mar 07
Midnighter wrote:Im not aware of anything in my enquiry that has pointed to my being affiliated to a Christian Church! No matter,. Moving on to your question. Your invitation to ask questions, aside. My question concerning the significance of the age of your religion was initiated by the several references to the age of your religion in replies to other earlier comments. I wanted to know what significance it had for Paganism.
Forgive me, I assumed that you were a part of a church group.
This not being so, could you then enlighten us as to the reasons for your very particular and reasonably articulate questioning of our beliefs please ?
With regard to my question concerning the relationship you have with the tradition in one of your ripostes to an earlier comment you said people who have forgotten more than you'll ever know
Hence I wanted to know whether you saw your relationship to the tradition as partly one of recollection (re-collection) a reappropriation of what has been lost or forgotten in part as a consequence of the age of the tradition and the historical distance from the earliest practitioners. Since the self understanding of any historical epoch ,or individual, is constrained by its terms of reference and language ( You Midnighter for instance were brought up within a Protestant Christian tradition - if only loosely as is evident from your terms of reference) I wanted to know if you saw your practices which seem quite unique and unusual , as an attempt to transcend historical specificity and bring yourselves closer to the earliest practitioners and thereby to an understanding of the sacred closer to that which they might have experienced.
Midnighter, Weymouth says...
9:48am Sun 18 Mar 07
The question of how long-lived the paganism we all practice is, well I don't think any of us labour under the illusion that we do things exactly as the ancestors did, but it is somehow comforting to know that a similar mindset existed all those millennia ago and long before the other major religions.
I suppose that we do see it though as a continuation and veneration of a certain way of life and in these uncertain times, also as a bold statement of Englishness, atleast that is my take on it.
All I know is that when one attends a ritual, one does feel incredibly close to those ancestors and to the land and elements.
Paganism, certainly the brand practised within the Dolmen Grove, does seem to tick all the boxes as far as comradeship goes. There is a bond between members, which even transcends the oceans.
Please don't think I'm prying Martin, but if you are not approaching your obvious interest in Paganism from a Christian perspective, may I ask which standpoint you are coming from ?
MartinH, says...
12:10pm Sun 18 Mar 07
Midnighter, Weymouth says...
2:19pm Sun 18 Mar 07
All the best to you.
Mark (not council boy), says...
11:42am Mon 19 Mar 07
Midnighter, Weymouth says...
4:47pm Mon 19 Mar 07
You would be very welcome to attend Saturday's ritual if you are able. ;)
It starts at 9pm.
BB
The Dolmen, weymouth says...
4:42pm Tue 20 Mar 07
hopefully it may recover a bit now much of the disease has been removed or grow back a bit of green.
but its former glory alas is gone for ever one feels.
that ritual is at 6pm by the way not 9pm.
all the best to you.
FOCAL POINT: Members of the Dolmen Grove with the 200-year-old beech tree at Winterborne Abbas stone circle
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Albo, Wyke Regis says...
12:16pm Tue 13 Mar 07
But let us not be downhearted! The wood cut from the tree can be used for a variety of purposes, not least in the burning of witches.
Note to witches: This is a joke. Nobody burns withes in a civilised country these days - we use the ducking stool instead. Far more humane.