Ringwood councillors call for meeting with Transport Secretary over A31 after crash which killed Jade Clark

8:41am Thursday 28th February 2013 in News

Ringwood councillors call for meeting with Transport Secretary over A31 speed limit Ringwood councillors call for meeting with Transport Secretary over A31 speed limit

RINGWOOD councillors are calling on the Highways Agency to re-classify the A31 as an urban road where it passes the town.

At a town council meeting last night they voted to write to the agency rejecting its claim that there is no reason to impose a 50mph speed limit between Picket Post and the Ashley Heath roundabout, and recommending the reclassification.

See our live coverage of last night's meeting

Should the road be designated as urban, Highways Agency guidelines would recommend the speed limit be reduced to 50mph.

Speaking at the meeting, Cllr Michael Thierry said: “There can hardly be 10 yards of the road in three miles which hasn’t seen an accident.

“Ringwood residents need to use that road to go anywhere else, it is not just for people travelling long journeys.”

He said the Highways Agency’s response had been disappointing, comparing the situation to David and Goliath, adding: “Ringwood is full of little Davids.”

Cllr Jeremy Heron reminded the council of the collision which led to the death of 16-year-old Jade Clark on Sunday evening.

He then urged residents to support the council by writing to local MP Desmond Swayne.

The council also voted to request Hampshire County Council to carry out a review of signage along the same stretch of the road, and look into yellow box markings at the A338 Ringwood interchange.

They welcomed proposals from the Highways Agency for merge ahead signs and bridge signs, and called for the costs to be produced for town councillors to consider.

They also agreed to request a meeting with the Secretary of State for Transport Patrick Mc-Loughlin.

Chairman Steve Rippon Swaine said after the vote: “The council is not prepared to sit on the response we had back from Highways.

“We are hoping to get a response back by Monday.”

Speaking after the meeting, Cllr Thierry said: “Having looked at the guidance the Highways officers refer to, we think there is more room for interpretation than they have allowed.

“There are grounds for this three-mile stretch of road to be considered urban.

“When you go down the A338 into Bournemouth it is 70mph, then it is 50mph when you get near the town. It should be the same here.

“As for the signs, we would have offered to install them ourselves if Highways hadn’t quoted such a high cost.

“They shouldn’t be that expensive.”

Comments(38)

retry69 says...
8:50am Thu 28 Feb 13

Will a reduction in the speed limit change the attitude of the drivers who think they are above the law and untouchable,i dont think so!

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bsjc1234 says...
8:52am Thu 28 Feb 13

"A31 must be 50mph at Ringwood, say councillors".....and so should the A338 from Blackwater to Bournemouth be aswell

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TinyLegacy says...
9:17am Thu 28 Feb 13

retry69 wrote:
Will a reduction in the speed limit change the attitude of the drivers who think they are above the law and untouchable,i dont think so!
Quite. If people are prepared to do 100mph on this road, then a change of sign won't stop them.
Do we even know that excess speed was the cause of the accident? Seems people are clutching at straws in an attempt to look proactive.

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Marcus James says...
9:23am Thu 28 Feb 13

Whilst sadly a life has been lost and a family affected for life I think that Councillors should not interfere with Road Policy, let the Council Officers responsible for this await the outcome of the Police and Coroner’s report into this accident and find out what actually occurred and if they are able to learn from the devastating incident.

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wintonbusinessman says...
9:25am Thu 28 Feb 13

Speed at this junction is a big issue, but its the design of the junction which is really bad. Petrol station, slip road and a confusing layout. Often cars cutting across 4 lanes to go to Poole and Salisbury east bound.

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crispy_pants says...
9:30am Thu 28 Feb 13

A mile down the road the speed limit is 50, and the road is straight and wider.
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This Ringwood stretch of road is narrow with two very dangerous entry points.
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One wonders sometimes how speed limits are arrived at. Motorways and Dual Carriageways are normally set at 70. But what a difference there can be in road and lane width.
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Scooters of the capacity that this young lady was probably using would not be allowed on a motorway. Its top speed would not be much above 30mph.
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I'm sure 30mph and 70mph do not really mix.
.
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Considering the number of accidents along this stretch of road, I cannot believe it is taking so long for the authorities to take proper action.

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SensibleChap says...
9:32am Thu 28 Feb 13

Why will a speed limit reduction help? Is a crash at 50mph going to be 'better' than a crash at 70mph?

These town councillors are frankly old fuddy duddies who feel as though they must meddle in matters for which they have no expertise. The Highways Agency has already said the case for a speed limit reduction is flawed. They are the experts.

How about we accept that if you drive in a car there is a chance you may collide with another one! Or how about we prevent 50cc bikes/ bikes and mopeds from dual carriageways?

Alternatively why don't we close the Fish Inn exit, close the Petrol Station exit and put a flashing warning on the flyover that traffic is likely to be emerging.

A speed limit reduction is a flawed and knee jerk reaction which if invoked will have totally ignored the facts.

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The Liberal says...
9:55am Thu 28 Feb 13

SensibleChap wrote:
Why will a speed limit reduction help? Is a crash at 50mph going to be 'better' than a crash at 70mph?

These town councillors are frankly old fuddy duddies who feel as though they must meddle in matters for which they have no expertise. The Highways Agency has already said the case for a speed limit reduction is flawed. They are the experts.

How about we accept that if you drive in a car there is a chance you may collide with another one! Or how about we prevent 50cc bikes/ bikes and mopeds from dual carriageways?

Alternatively why don't we close the Fish Inn exit, close the Petrol Station exit and put a flashing warning on the flyover that traffic is likely to be emerging.

A speed limit reduction is a flawed and knee jerk reaction which if invoked will have totally ignored the facts.
Of course the speed of a collision matters! Did you not learn any basic physics at school?
 
And if the speed limit is reduced – and enforced – on this section of road, it would make it a lot safer for those using low-powered scooters and motorbikes, not to mention anyone else entering or exiting via a slip road.

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speedy231278 says...
10:21am Thu 28 Feb 13

Speed is not the issue. Poor driving is, and always will be. It doesn't matter if you are doing 50 or 70 mph if you collide with someone on a motorcycle that is only capable of 30mph, the outcome is very likely only the one we have seen in the tragic incident that has sparked this debate.

As a life-long motorcyclist, the thought of riding a machine barely capable of 30mph down any road, never mind a very busy dual carriageway scares the living daylights out of me. It seems that most car drivers attempt to intimidate smaller and slower vehicles (it is very common for other drivers to behave this way towards my missus who drives a Metro), feeling nice and safe in their huge armoured tanks like the vehicle currently being sought by the Police. I'm not entirely unconvinced that the 50cc/30mph class of motorcycle should be abolished, or banned from dual carriageways, however that would be rather impractical and what would you do with them all?

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retry69 says...
10:22am Thu 28 Feb 13

TinyLegacy wrote:
retry69 wrote:
Will a reduction in the speed limit change the attitude of the drivers who think they are above the law and untouchable,i dont think so!
Quite. If people are prepared to do 100mph on this road, then a change of sign won't stop them.
Do we even know that excess speed was the cause of the accident? Seems people are clutching at straws in an attempt to look proactive.
If you are a regular commenter to these type of topics you cannot help but notice the number of drivers who actually have no respect for speed limits and feel no guilt in admitting it

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Bournesouthmouth Downpokes says...
10:49am Thu 28 Feb 13

When driving, STOP thinking about the other "vehicle" (be it a moped, motorcycle,bicycle, car, truck, scooter even) as merely just an object and START considering "it" as a human life, a fellow person whom which we share this planet we live on with.

Ahhhh, another bike on the road, let's overtake it with my big status SUV/Beemer...
NO IT'S NOT JUST ANOTHER "OBJECT" ON THE ROAD WITH LESS IMPORTANCE THAN YOURSELF, IT'S A HUMAN BEING!!! WE THE PEOPLE ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN MECHANICAL AUTOMOBILES!!!

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TheDistrict says...
11:06am Thu 28 Feb 13

The A338 coming from the north should be segregated off from the A31 by a barrier, even if this means removing the Texaco fuel station. Traffic can then run up to the Ashley flyover, and back down in a single lane traffic to join the A31, or to go left or right to Bournemouth and Verwood. Like wise coming from the South, A338 traffic should leave the A31 at the Ashley flyover, and then drive over, and down the other side to the A338, again with the A31 separated by bollards. In both directions this will stop the speed freeks and bad road users from crossing lanes from one fast road to a filter road without looking. With this, and the speed limits dropped, this I believe will solve the problem. As it is now, it is far to dangerous, and when accidents happen (often) the road is blocked for many miles, usually to Cadnamm, and for many hours, such as the last sad incident on this road. Lets not have anymore Councillors, Highways Dept, Police and whoever else concerned,

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karenferndown says...
11:28am Thu 28 Feb 13

I think 50mph is quite reasonable here, there are a lot of people changing lanes and with 4 lanes in either direction, and not everyone looking properly or indicating, it can be quite precarious there.
However, as others have said, you will always get the speeding idiots who think laws are for others to obey and not them.
Also, although 50mph seems a good idea at the Ashley Heath junctions where there are 4 lanes, I do think that their wish to extend the limit to Picket Post seems a bit extreme. Certainly travelling towards Cadnam there seems to be no need for 50mph after the Ringwood flyover.
It does strike me that Ringwood Council seem a bit keen on using this tragedy to their own ends. They are trying to get everyone jumping on their bandwagon to change the speed limit and road layout when maybe if anything is learnt from this tragic loss, it should be that we question why the law allows mopeds, restricted to 31mph, to be on 70mph dual carriageways in the first place? After all, mopeds are not allowed on motorways because it would be so clearly dangerous. What is the difference? Number of lanes? At least the motorway is wider and has a hard shoulder to help avoid a slow moving small vehicle, it really is a huge oversight in the law.
30mph is a dangerous speed to be going on such a vulnerable form of transport for anyone, especially for a 16 year old with no real road experience. In the dark, going at 70mph, as a driver, you will find yourself suddenly coming up on a slow moving small moped and if there are no lanes to swerve into, you can only pray you could brake in time.
Surely it is better to campaign for the law to be changed for mopeds to not be allowed on these roads, this could have happened at any busy junction area on any dual carriageway just as easily. This poor little girl would still be alive today if the law had prevented her from being in such a hugely dangerous position in the first place. Would you cross the road there on foot? I doubt any of you in your right minds would, as you would probably be in as much danger as on a bicycle or moped there.
All this said, lets not forget the real victims here, Jade's family, and my thoughts are with them. I hope they get the support they need.

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Hessenford says...
12:15pm Thu 28 Feb 13

In towns, cities and around schools we are forever being told that only 5mph over the limit is decisive of injury or death, speed cameras everywhere fine drivers for being only a little over the limit but it seems anyone can travel at excess speed on motorways and duel carriageways and very rarely get caught.
Reducing speed limits on roads that were designed for high speeds is not the answer, we don't even know yet whether speed was a factor in this poor girls death, the design of the road wants looking at but of course that would be to expensive so the knee jerk reaction is speed reduction and accidents will still happen.
I am always amazed that a 17 year old car driver can pass a driving test and then drive on duel carriageways and motorways at high speeds with no tuition but could not drive on these roads a day before their driving test as a learner driver, perhaps that needs looking at as well.

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speedy231278 says...
12:36pm Thu 28 Feb 13

"In the dark, going at 70mph, as a driver, you will find yourself suddenly coming up on a slow moving small moped and if there are no lanes to swerve into, you can only pray you could brake in time."

If you 'suddenly' notice a slower vehicle at the last moment, you are precisely the reason changing the speed limit will not work in the first place! All vehicles have lights. If you can't see a working tail light several hundred yards infront in good weather. I suggest taking the bus!

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speedy231278 says...
12:37pm Thu 28 Feb 13

"I am always amazed that a 17 year old car driver can pass a driving test and then drive on duel carriageways and motorways at high speeds with no tuition but could not drive on these roads a day before their driving test as a learner driver, perhaps that needs looking at as well."

Last time I looked, L plates were permitted on dual carriageways, and most instructors will take their pupils on one when they deem them fit to. Motorways are the only place you cannot use L plates, unless I am mistaken.

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Hessenford says...
12:50pm Thu 28 Feb 13

speedy231278 wrote:
"I am always amazed that a 17 year old car driver can pass a driving test and then drive on duel carriageways and motorways at high speeds with no tuition but could not drive on these roads a day before their driving test as a learner driver, perhaps that needs looking at as well."

Last time I looked, L plates were permitted on dual carriageways, and most instructors will take their pupils on one when they deem them fit to. Motorways are the only place you cannot use L plates, unless I am mistaken.
Slight typo in my sentence, doesn't disguise the fact that an inexperienced driver can still mix with motorway traffic at speeds they haven't been tested on and in my view they should be tested on any roads which are above town and city driving.

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Roband65 says...
1:37pm Thu 28 Feb 13

retry69 wrote:
TinyLegacy wrote:
retry69 wrote:
Will a reduction in the speed limit change the attitude of the drivers who think they are above the law and untouchable,i dont think so!
Quite. If people are prepared to do 100mph on this road, then a change of sign won't stop them.
Do we even know that excess speed was the cause of the accident? Seems people are clutching at straws in an attempt to look proactive.
If you are a regular commenter to these type of topics you cannot help but notice the number of drivers who actually have no respect for speed limits and feel no guilt in admitting it
Typical SUV basher whats your problem there are plenty of other cars that are involved in accidents makes no difference what you are driving in !

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gemlou06 says...
1:39pm Thu 28 Feb 13

Wouldnt it be better to ban slow vechicles on dual carriage ways, not just this one but all the dual carriage ways. as these vechicles are going 30mph, with on coming traffic at 70mph. i have also seen a milk float on this dual carriage way which is going very slow and alot of people slamming on there brakes which could cause a crash.

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Roband65 says...
1:40pm Thu 28 Feb 13

Apologies i quoted the incorrect post

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hadvar says...
3:41pm Thu 28 Feb 13

The local road system is poor. It causes accidents. If the roads are inherently dangerous, there will be accidents and vulnerable road users will be most at risk. Speed limits cant make up for bad roads. Fix the roads first. This conurbation is a big city, with the road system of a rural county. The roads need to be improved.

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mr_mr says...
3:42pm Thu 28 Feb 13

This is one section of road that I'd be in favour of a lower speed limit on. There are too many slow feeds onto the main artery and lane changing between the Ashley Heath roundabout and Ringwood junction is fraught.

Yes, you'll always get people that speed regardless of the limit, but lowering the speed limit does actually work. For the most part people obey the limits, if only loosely, and so the net effect would be to drag down the average speed on the road.

Would a lower speed limit have saved a life in this instance? Maybe. It's not as black and white as some have suggested. One can only speculate.

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Mrspud28 says...
5:01pm Thu 28 Feb 13

Hessenford wrote:
speedy231278 wrote:
"I am always amazed that a 17 year old car driver can pass a driving test and then drive on duel carriageways and motorways at high speeds with no tuition but could not drive on these roads a day before their driving test as a learner driver, perhaps that needs looking at as well."

Last time I looked, L plates were permitted on dual carriageways, and most instructors will take their pupils on one when they deem them fit to. Motorways are the only place you cannot use L plates, unless I am mistaken.
Slight typo in my sentence, doesn't disguise the fact that an inexperienced driver can still mix with motorway traffic at speeds they haven't been tested on and in my view they should be tested on any roads which are above town and city driving.
You don't even get tested at 16 to ride a 50cc scooter. Just a cbt which is basic training. Worrying then that having passed your cbt you can head off down any road at 30mph except motorways. It's asking for trouble

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b26b says...
6:17pm Thu 28 Feb 13

TinyLegacy wrote:
retry69 wrote:
Will a reduction in the speed limit change the attitude of the drivers who think they are above the law and untouchable,i dont think so!
Quite. If people are prepared to do 100mph on this road, then a change of sign won't stop them.
Do we even know that excess speed was the cause of the accident? Seems people are clutching at straws in an attempt to look proactive.
Gatso and/or specs camera systems say they will. Infact specs is much better system

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I have to comment says...
7:10pm Thu 28 Feb 13

I actually cant believe people are so silly to realise an accident at a lower speed will do less damage and give others more time to react to situations. I am local I often use it more than once a day and you do need your witts about you to watch out for all the incompetants that dont! Its a busy road and alot of non locals use it. I have seen many a near miss on the road and nearly been hit by last minute lane swappers. Us local people know how bad this road is. The person who talks about fuddy duddy councillors is too stupid to see its local people. PARENTS and anxious teens asking for them to lobby for this. It is OUR local rd and OUR local children and OUR lives affected. The KIDS the NEW generation are campaigning for this. They feel their local road is dangerous, They have seen their friends killed. They rely on the older population to help shape their area the way they want. All government departments should realise they have a responsibility to listen to local and the new generation!!

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I have to comment says...
7:12pm Thu 28 Feb 13

TinyLegacy wrote:
retry69 wrote: Will a reduction in the speed limit change the attitude of the drivers who think they are above the law and untouchable,i dont think so!
Quite. If people are prepared to do 100mph on this road, then a change of sign won't stop them. Do we even know that excess speed was the cause of the accident? Seems people are clutching at straws in an attempt to look proactive.
No but the local people know what a danger non local drivers are driving at speed without knowing the road layout!

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I have to comment says...
7:13pm Thu 28 Feb 13

Marcus James wrote:
Whilst sadly a life has been lost and a family affected for life I think that Councillors should not interfere with Road Policy, let the Council Officers responsible for this await the outcome of the Police and Coroner’s report into this accident and find out what actually occurred and if they are able to learn from the devastating incident.
This has been wanted for a long time

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I have to comment says...
7:21pm Thu 28 Feb 13

SensibleChap wrote:
Why will a speed limit reduction help? Is a crash at 50mph going to be 'better' than a crash at 70mph? These town councillors are frankly old fuddy duddies who feel as though they must meddle in matters for which they have no expertise. The Highways Agency has already said the case for a speed limit reduction is flawed. They are the experts. How about we accept that if you drive in a car there is a chance you may collide with another one! Or how about we prevent 50cc bikes/ bikes and mopeds from dual carriageways? Alternatively why don't we close the Fish Inn exit, close the Petrol Station exit and put a flashing warning on the flyover that traffic is likely to be emerging. A speed limit reduction is a flawed and knee jerk reaction which if invoked will have totally ignored the facts.
Prevent cyclists and scooter users leaving their home town? The councillor is lobbying for LOCAL people parents and their teens. How about we just lower the speed limit as a start and see what happends and accept your journet will take a minute longer. Local teens on bikes are not allowed on pavements incase they damage one of the few walkers they come accross with there pedal bikes and apparently they shouldn't be on their loca roads either not even on a scooter?

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lionheart says...
7:27pm Thu 28 Feb 13

TheDistrict wrote:
The A338 coming from the north should be segregated off from the A31 by a barrier, even if this means removing the Texaco fuel station. Traffic can then run up to the Ashley flyover, and back down in a single lane traffic to join the A31, or to go left or right to Bournemouth and Verwood. Like wise coming from the South, A338 traffic should leave the A31 at the Ashley flyover, and then drive over, and down the other side to the A338, again with the A31 separated by bollards. In both directions this will stop the speed freeks and bad road users from crossing lanes from one fast road to a filter road without looking. With this, and the speed limits dropped, this I believe will solve the problem. As it is now, it is far to dangerous, and when accidents happen (often) the road is blocked for many miles, usually to Cadnamm, and for many hours, such as the last sad incident on this road. Lets not have anymore Councillors, Highways Dept, Police and whoever else concerned,
How do you get onto the A31 from Verwood under your scheme?

From the Ringwood slip?

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Puj says...
8:09pm Thu 28 Feb 13

Maybe a gradual speed reduction on the approach to Ringwood from Poulner might help slow things down.

From 70mph across the forest to 50mph down the hill.... and 40mph approaching the 3 slip roads out of Ringwood - with speed cameras on the differing stretches. Make the remainder of the road towards Ferndown a 50mph speed limit.

Wessex Way speed limit has been reduced over recent years - without too many problems.

Maybe the Spur road into Bournemouth should be a 50mph too - bearing in mind all the accidents on that stretch too.

JMO

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News reader says...
10:19pm Thu 28 Feb 13

Whether a lower speed limit is set, it is of no use unless it is enforced.

It is the enforcement that needs to be considered as much as anything else.

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skippy123 says...
10:20pm Thu 28 Feb 13

Its a sad fact that this poor girl lost her life but why is it they aways go back to the same old point time after time there is an accident. changing the speed limit wont solve a thing just look at the other roads in the area which they droped from 70 to 50 like the spur road and holes bay road people still have died on both of thoese roads even with a 50mph limit. Speed cameras make things worse how many times have you been doing 50 on the spur road when the idiot in front sees the camera and slows to 40 or less causing people to get fustrated and anoyed with other road users.

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EGHH says...
7:00am Fri 1 Mar 13

News reader wrote:
Whether a lower speed limit is set, it is of no use unless it is enforced.

It is the enforcement that needs to be considered as much as anything else.
Exactly. The Govt has said there will be no new fixed speed cameras installed in the England. How will the mobile van monitor 4 lanes? They are only capable of two at most. I doubt the police will have personnel stationed there 24/7. So this leaves average speed cameras which cost a fortune to install. Will Ringwood Council pay for these?

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eaststandman says...
11:03am Fri 1 Mar 13

I travelled home last night joining the A31 at Picket Post, traffic was smooth and all travelling sensibly.

I was doing 60 as I can anticipate whats coming, down towards Poulner.

Then, out of my mirror came a convertible Audi, a BMW and a Vauxhall 6 feet apart, all doing in excess of 100mph.

Whats the point discussing this ? The commuters won't take any notice of the residents of Ringwood/Burley/Verw
ood?

The junctions are just 'in their way'

There is a 40mph speed limit in the forest but I'm overtaken virtually everyday by a 'suit' who doesn't care.

The average speed cameras at the top of the M3 seem to work, so why not here ?

The roads are now too busy for these 'clarkson knobs'. Their day has been and gone. Cars are just everyday tools - no more important than a toaster. Get over yourselves.

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Chris the plumber says...
12:32pm Fri 1 Mar 13

speed limits need to be enforced, most of us agree and its up to us the road using public to do our bit. Like drinking and driving is now socially unacceptable we need to make speeders feel just as uncomfortable. when i started driving in 1967 it was quite acceptable to have a few pints and drive home but now you are more likely to be reported by the landlord that served you or anyone who saw you get in your car and quite rightly so... let make speeders feel just as uncomfortable.. If you are driving a the speed limit and are over taken take the number and phone the police. Drivers who use their cars in a way which causes or is likely to cause, alarm, distress or annoyance ie speeding, are breaking the law
There is a good possibility that if enough people phone about a particular car they could lose it !
let do this and take those numbers and let the police know who the idiots are..

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BarrHumbug says...
2:35pm Fri 1 Mar 13

I think the cause of this tragic accident should be ascertained before people start reaching for their pitchforks?

Was the girl even the cause of the accident? We are told several vehicles were involved, so was she caught up in an accident that had already begun?

While I agree that maybe 50cc mopeds shouldn't be allowed on dual carriageways, unlike with motorways, sometimes there is no alternative quieter route and so i think without major expensive road layout changes a reduction to 50mph is the only viable option.

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afcb72 says...
12:32pm Mon 4 Mar 13

it is not just the speed limit, it is the entire stretch of road from Poulner Hill to Ashley flyover to be all wrong and ill-designed!
Should be re-designed and changed as soon as possible before others will be subject to (fatal and not) incidents!

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StephenKW says...
1:16pm Mon 4 Mar 13

I have to agree with afcb72, the entire set of junction and filter lanes was ill concieved and should be re structured. Until such time i believe they should move the existing 50 speed limit (it makes no sense in its current location) to the area that needs it - Ringwood.

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