BAYWATCH BOURNEMOUTH
A DISPUTE over a few inches of white paint could leave drivers free to challenge parking tickets across Bournemouth.
Bournemouth council has admitted there are on-street parking bays across the borough where the road markings don't comply with the law.
But it has rejected calls to stop handing out tickets and start refunding affected motorists.
Amongst the affected bays are those that run along Bourne Avenue adjacent to Bournemouth Gardens, those that go past the town hall in Braidley Road and bays in Wimborne Road, Winton. The council is unable to state how many others there are across the town.
These bays all breach 2002 regulations because they are marked with a white double-line at one end instead of a single line.
But Bournemouth council says the bays comply with earlier regulations and that it would not have been cost-effective to alter road markings immediately after the law changed.
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It insists this approach is allowed as the 1981 regulations are still valid.
But barrister Oliver Mischon, who writes the weekly Judge Tread column for the Sunday Mirror, said: "Bournem-outh council are on very shaky legal ground if they intend to rely on the fact that their parking bays complied with regulations enacted at least 14 years ago, even though the council accepts they contravene the current rules.
"Roads are always being dug up by councils or utility companies - have these stretches of roads really remained untouched for so many years? If they have not, they cannot rely on the transitional dispensation."
And Neil Herron, who runs the website ParkingAppeals.co.uk, explained: "The law as it stands is governed by the 2002 regulations and those say that such bays are unlawful. If anybody gets a ticket there we can provide them with a full legal defence and help them take it to an adjudicator. If the council think they are right, bring it on."
Parkstone motorist Gavin Hunt is currently appealing against a ticket he received while parked in Bourne Avenue in January.
He said: "I was really annoyed at getting a ticket for overstaying the bay by about 13 minutes. I saw a television programme about defective parking bays and signs and decided to check it out. It took me about an hour of research to confirm that this bay did not comply with the law."
Gerry Bolland, Bournemouth's enforcement and parking manager, said he was "satisfied" the bays in Bourne Avenue were fully enforceable.
He added: "We continue to carry out regular reviews of all traffic regulation orders and from that review, a schedule of priority works is drawn up to include the renewal of road markings in the borough to ensure they are compliant with the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 regulations."
5:54am Monday 12th May 2008
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CommentPosted by: 2Much, New Forest on 6:14am Mon 12 May 08
"We continue to carry out regular reviews of all traffic regulation orders"..yeah bet you do.
"We continue to carry out regular reviews of all traffic regulation orders"..yeah bet you do.
Posted by: fedupwithjobsworths, Moordown on 7:53am Mon 12 May 08
Bournemouth Council is a law unto itself these days.
Perhaps if Gavin Hunt is successful in his appeal he should seek costs from the Jobsworth concerned.
Bournemouth Council is a law unto itself these days.
Perhaps if Gavin Hunt is successful in his appeal he should seek costs from the Jobsworth concerned.
Posted by: OldGiraffe, Poole on 7:58am Mon 12 May 08
Why do motorist make a fuss about a bit of paint when they know they have overstayed their parking time?
Why do motorist make a fuss about a bit of paint when they know they have overstayed their parking time?
Posted by: Hillary, Bournemouth on 7:58am Mon 12 May 08
So Gavin Hunt is really annoyed because he overstayed by 'only' 13 minutes - Bourne Avenue is a 1 hour free parking zone, so a 13 minute overstay is, proportionately, quite a long time. If you don't want a fine, why not try returning to your car after, say, 55 minutes!
So Gavin Hunt is really annoyed because he overstayed by 'only' 13 minutes - Bourne Avenue is a 1 hour free parking zone, so a 13 minute overstay is, proportionately, quite a long time. If you don't want a fine, why not try returning to your car after, say, 55 minutes!
Posted by: Old Contemptible, Poole on 9:07am Mon 12 May 08
Councils regard motorists/council taxpayers as easy meat for their Pension revenue etc so that many 'take' early retirement. Look up www.isitfair.com and you will see what I mean!
Councils regard motorists/council taxpayers as easy meat for their Pension revenue etc so that many 'take' early retirement. Look up www.isitfair.com and you will see what I mean!
Posted by: Perihelion, Bournemouth on 10:21am Mon 12 May 08
I agree with Hillary above. Would these 13mins have not counted if the 2002 lines were in place? Why have all UK laws got 'belt and braces'? Why can't the public respect what is being asked of them, without the need for all the i's to be dotted and all the t's to be crossed?
I agree with Hillary above. Would these 13mins have not counted if the 2002 lines were in place? Why have all UK laws got 'belt and braces'? Why can't the public respect what is being asked of them, without the need for all the i's to be dotted and all the t's to be crossed?
Posted by: Richard, Bournemouth on 10:58am Mon 12 May 08
I agree with Hilary as well. Mr Hunt selfishly overstayed the free time limit and has been rightly fined.
The attitude of Mr Bolland is another thing altogether. How did he escape the consequences of the mass issuing of illegal tickets a couple of years ago?
I agree with Hilary as well. Mr Hunt selfishly overstayed the free time limit and has been rightly fined.
The attitude of Mr Bolland is another thing altogether. How did he escape the consequences of the mass issuing of illegal tickets a couple of years ago?
Posted by: Ed, Bournemouth on 11:24am Mon 12 May 08
So the first thing that Mr Hunt did was to see if there was a loophole that he could use to try and get away with the fact that he had done something wrong.
Accept it Mr Hunt you did something wrong and you should pay for having done something wrong, it's as simple as that.
So the first thing that Mr Hunt did was to see if there was a loophole that he could use to try and get away with the fact that he had done something wrong.
Accept it Mr Hunt you did something wrong and you should pay for having done something wrong, it's as simple as that.
Posted by: Christopher, Wallisdown & Winton West on 11:35am Mon 12 May 08
Mr Hunt you took advantage of a one hour free parking zone, knowing that it was a free one hour parking zone. Yet you deliberately overstayed your time by nearly 25% of that permitted time.
Take it on the chin as part of driving, and pay the fine.
As for Bournemouth Council, do what you preach and make sure that our rules of the town are in date, and regularly checked. Do not just say they are. Get off your backsides.
Mr Hunt you took advantage of a one hour free parking zone, knowing that it was a free one hour parking zone. Yet you deliberately overstayed your time by nearly 25% of that permitted time.
Take it on the chin as part of driving, and pay the fine.
As for Bournemouth Council, do what you preach and make sure that our rules of the town are in date, and regularly checked. Do not just say they are. Get off your backsides.
Posted by: cheesedof, wimborne on 12:51pm Mon 12 May 08
Now Now Technicality is far more important than justice ask Flintoff or Hoogenstratten (sorry about the spelling)!
Now Now Technicality is far more important than justice ask Flintoff or Hoogenstratten (sorry about the spelling)!
Posted by: cheesedof, wimborne on 12:56pm Mon 12 May 08
Now Now Technicality is far more important than justice ask Flintoff or Hoogenstratten 9sorry about the spelling)![bold]bold[/bold]
Now Now Technicality is far more important than justice ask Flintoff or Hoogenstratten 9sorry about the spelling)!
Posted by: PokesdownMark, Pokesdown on 1:34pm Mon 12 May 08
I can see the argument of the loophole comments. But the traffic rules on signage and line markings exist for a reason: to eliminate confusion about parking regulations. Ok sometimes we are talking about a tinymissing end-marker, or a single instead of a double. But it can be more than that. Missing post signs are not that unusual. Or loading bays that are not wide enough, possibly because they are badly located?
So here's my point. The rules on road markings and signs are very clear. There are detailed diagrams available to avoid mistakes. A lot of our money has been spent to define the standard legal markings. They have been available for a long time. The councils have used our money to buy their copies of the official publications (and they are not cheap!) showing the official markings. So why should councils be allowed, after all that effort and cost, to use markings that differ from the standard?
I can see the argument of the loophole comments. But the traffic rules on signage and line markings exist for a reason: to eliminate confusion about parking regulations. Ok sometimes we are talking about a tinymissing end-marker, or a single instead of a double. But it can be more than that. Missing post signs are not that unusual. Or loading bays that are not wide enough, possibly because they are badly located?
So here's my point. The rules on road markings and signs are very clear. There are detailed diagrams available to avoid mistakes. A lot of our money has been spent to define the standard legal markings. They have been available for a long time. The councils have used our money to buy their copies of the official publications (and they are not cheap!) showing the official markings. So why should councils be allowed, after all that effort and cost, to use markings that differ from the standard?
Posted by: Philip, Ferndown on 4:13pm Mon 12 May 08
If these parking bays are illegal then Bournemouth Council should immediately suspend them. This will give the 'avoid paying for parking' brigade something to worry about when they cannot park.
If these parking bays are illegal then Bournemouth Council should immediately suspend them. This will give the 'avoid paying for parking' brigade something to worry about when they cannot park.
Posted by: bryan, parkstone on 8:03pm Mon 12 May 08
was it just 13 mins. or 13 mins. over since the warden saw the vehicle an hour before?
was it just 13 mins. or 13 mins. over since the warden saw the vehicle an hour before?
Posted by: alumchineboy, Alumchine on 8:24pm Mon 12 May 08
I am curently having to write 3 x £90 cheques to the council because I parked my car in Southcote Rd and went off on the train to work for 2 days. When I came back I realised I was on a disabled parking space. I didnt realise this when I parked because the lines and wording on the road were unreadable and it was 5am, dark and in heavy rain at the time that I parked. To make things worse someone took all 3 tickets off the car so when I got back I didnt realise I had been ticketed and then......the fine went up to £70 for not paying quickly and then......whilst I contacted the council about it a charge was issued against myself and/or the car and its gone up to £90 each now ( cant work it all out how ).......and if I dont pay NOW the baliffs will come round and charge me for their time also.
I accept I parked in the wrong place. My point is that the lines are so worn away you cannot see them especially at 5am when its raining.
Does anyone know if there anything I can do because if I challenge it the cost goes up ? Also I cant believe they issued 3 seperate tickets and they were all taken off my car.
If the lines etc are not right then I hope people do challenge it as I am now paying out or about to because the lines were not clearly marked and you could not see them clearly.
I am curently having to write 3 x £90 cheques to the council because I parked my car in Southcote Rd and went off on the train to work for 2 days. When I came back I realised I was on a disabled parking space. I didnt realise this when I parked because the lines and wording on the road were unreadable and it was 5am, dark and in heavy rain at the time that I parked. To make things worse someone took all 3 tickets off the car so when I got back I didnt realise I had been ticketed and then......the fine went up to £70 for not paying quickly and then......whilst I contacted the council about it a charge was issued against myself and/or the car and its gone up to £90 each now ( cant work it all out how ).......and if I dont pay NOW the baliffs will come round and charge me for their time also.
I accept I parked in the wrong place. My point is that the lines are so worn away you cannot see them especially at 5am when its raining.
Does anyone know if there anything I can do because if I challenge it the cost goes up ? Also I cant believe they issued 3 seperate tickets and they were all taken off my car.
If the lines etc are not right then I hope people do challenge it as I am now paying out or about to because the lines were not clearly marked and you could not see them clearly.
Posted by: alumchineboy, Alumchine on 8:25pm Mon 12 May 08
I am curently having to write 3 x £90 cheques to the council because I parked my car in Southcote Rd and went off on the train to work for 2 days. When I came back I realised I was on a disabled parking space. I didnt realise this when I parked because the lines and wording on the road were unreadable and it was 5am, dark and in heavy rain at the time that I parked. To make things worse someone took all 3 tickets off the car so when I got back I didnt realise I had been ticketed and then......the fine went up to £70 for not paying quickly and then......whilst I contacted the council about it a charge was issued against myself and/or the car and its gone up to £90 each now ( cant work it all out how ).......and if I dont pay NOW the baliffs will come round and charge me for their time also.
I accept I parked in the wrong place. My point is that the lines are so worn away you cannot see them especially at 5am when its raining.
Does anyone know if there anything I can do because if I challenge it the cost goes up ? Also I cant believe they issued 3 seperate tickets and they were all taken off my car.
If the lines etc are not right then I hope people do challenge it as I am now paying out or about to because the lines were not clearly marked and you could not see them clearly.
I am curently having to write 3 x £90 cheques to the council because I parked my car in Southcote Rd and went off on the train to work for 2 days. When I came back I realised I was on a disabled parking space. I didnt realise this when I parked because the lines and wording on the road were unreadable and it was 5am, dark and in heavy rain at the time that I parked. To make things worse someone took all 3 tickets off the car so when I got back I didnt realise I had been ticketed and then......the fine went up to £70 for not paying quickly and then......whilst I contacted the council about it a charge was issued against myself and/or the car and its gone up to £90 each now ( cant work it all out how ).......and if I dont pay NOW the baliffs will come round and charge me for their time also.
I accept I parked in the wrong place. My point is that the lines are so worn away you cannot see them especially at 5am when its raining.
Does anyone know if there anything I can do because if I challenge it the cost goes up ? Also I cant believe they issued 3 seperate tickets and they were all taken off my car.
If the lines etc are not right then I hope people do challenge it as I am now paying out or about to because the lines were not clearly marked and you could not see them clearly.
Posted by: Cargy, Devon on 1:38am Fri 16 May 08
Anyone with a parking ticket should visit the free help forums at www.pepipoo.com.
You'd be surprised how often councils get it wrong and cannot lawfully issue a ticket, but they'll carry on knowing most won't bother to appeal and they can rake in fine they aren't entitled to!
Those whinging about "loopholes and technicalities" should remember this: The Council expects motorists to follow the letter of the law or it will fine them(Leeway is as rare as hen's teeth)! So, it's only fair that the Council should follow the letter of the law too! Me? I'd be parking in the unlawful bays every day till they sorted it, if I could. The Council's had 6 years to sort it since 2002... Whose fault is that? Not the motorist!
Anyone with a parking ticket should visit the free help forums at www.pepipoo.com.
You'd be surprised how often councils get it wrong and cannot lawfully issue a ticket, but they'll carry on knowing most won't bother to appeal and they can rake in fine they aren't entitled to!
Those whinging about "loopholes and technicalities" should remember this: The Council expects motorists to follow the letter of the law or it will fine them(Leeway is as rare as hen's teeth)! So, it's only fair that the Council should follow the letter of the law too! Me? I'd be parking in the unlawful bays every day till they sorted it, if I could. The Council's had 6 years to sort it since 2002... Whose fault is that? Not the motorist!
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